Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Magenta]

Another thing to watch out for/pay attention to and I have asked RM a number of times if he is denying
the Deity of Christ, but as far as I know he never answers that question while he skirts around the issue.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

Don’t be deceived by arguments or people here. Judas Iscariot was a disciple of Jesus and Jesus said that those who leave everything to follow him would inherit eternal life. Judas checks that box.

Matthew 19
29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Some people seem to have it in their heart that since Judas didn’t get eternal life that it makes Jesus a liar and a deceiver. I would warn against such things because such thoughts are anti-Christ.

However, I am sure this is most likely a misunderstanding from the get-go about eternal life. The point is, Judas lost his salvation and didn’t inherit eternal life because eternal life isn’t received instantaneously. None of you are immortal now, it comes later, hence Jesus said “inherit eternal life.” Eternal life comes in the age to come.

Luke 18
29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Luke 20
34Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Ephesians 2
6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus

1 Corinthians 15
52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

Jude 1
21keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

Judas clearly lost his standing to be counted worthy of eternal life in the age to come. Let that be a warning to all of the people who thought they had eternal life now. They don’t.

I have always thought we'll of Judas. He insured Jesus fulfilled his mission.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Romans 8:28-30 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

This is one of the most powerful passages to refute the nonsense that genuine Christians can lose their salvation. So it debunks the title of this thread. God sees His children as being ALREADY perfected and glorified in Christ. So this is NOT about predestination for salvation, but predestination for glorification. BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Great question and it’s a valid one.

Judas Iscariot is either OSAS or he lost his salvation. Well, we know from Matthew 19 that those who leave their life and follow Jesus will inherit eternal life. So Judas checks that box.

However, Judas committed apostasy, betrayed Jesus, and though he repented of betraying innocent blood, he committed suicide.

Finally, the prophecy plainly states he was doomed to destruction. Destruction is the punishment reserved for the unsaved.

So it’s quite conclusive that Judas lost eternal life. It also meshes with scripture quite well. It seems it’s possible some are destined to be destroyed. There’s a doctrine for this. Though I am only beginning to learn predestination.

What about John 3:16 wouldn't that make the word whosoever have a different meaning?

 

[posthuman]

That would be a misunderstanding of Jesus on your part. It isn’t an either/or kind of thing, i.e., you’re either saved or you aren’t. It’s that you can be saved and then lose it. There are conditions that must be met and Judas didn’t walk the strait and narrow apparently.

so you're saying Jesus was wrong,
therefore per your position Jesus cannot be trusted at what He says

 

[Runningman]

so you're saying Jesus was wrong,
therefore per your position Jesus cannot be trusted at what He says

I don’t even know what you’re talking about. Did you even mean to reply to me? I didn’t call Jesus a liar and/or say he can’t be trusted. I said you (the user on CC known as posthuman) are wrong and I can prove it. You aren’t Jesus are you? Is falsely accusing people a defense mechanism you have?

 

[Runningman]

What about John 3:16 wouldn't that make the word whosoever have a different meaning?

Is someone who once believed in God’s Son, then stopped believing, someone who believes in God’s Son?

 

[HeIsHere]

Is someone who once believed in God’s Son, then stopped believing, someone who believes in God’s Son?

Do you know that a person's belief in/on Christ Jesus and His redemptive work as a personal act, is only one part, you do realize that God responds to this act of faith with the free gift of salvation. It is irrevocable.

Romans 11:29

Again I ask, is your God fickle?
Do you understand the legal standing of the born again person?

 

[Runningman]

Do you know that a person's belief in/on Christ Jesus and His redemptive work as a personal act, is only one part, you do realize that God responds to this act of faith with the free gift of salvation. It is irrevocable.

Romans 11:29

Again I ask, is your God fickle?
Do you understand the legal standing of the born again person?

Which verse says you get eternal life immediately upon having faith though?

 

[Runningman]

Another thing to watch out for/pay attention to and I have asked RM a number of times if he is denying
the Deity of Christ, but as far as I know he never answers that question while he skirts around the issue.

Another thing to watch out for are the vile anti-Christian things you’ve said about me. You accused me of wanting to murder Jesus in a different thread, totally unprovoked, in the middle of a Bible discussion about the Sabbath.

Shortly after that, an unclean spirit visited me, but I drove it away with the power and authority Jesus gave me. You need to be careful what you say.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Which verse says you get eternal life immediately upon having faith though?

Let's remove the Truth about Judas allowing Satan to possess and use him for a moment.
You think Judas is OSAS even after committing suicide?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Is someone who once believed in God’s Son, then stopped believing, someone who believes in God’s Son?

I don’t believe that It’s possible to believe then not believe but I do think It’s possible to believe then decide to reject.

I believe In OSAS but I don’t believe In predestination because It seems to me that that would be unfair and the word whoever In John 3:16 would not mean whoever but Some and not everyone.
Kinda of scary when I think on that because IMO predestination Is not fair.

 

[posthuman]

I don’t even know what you’re talking about. Did you even mean to reply to me? I didn’t call Jesus a liar and/or say he can’t be trusted.

Your position is that Christ said Judas will sit on a throne with eternal life:

In Matthew 19, Jesus told the 12 apostles they would inherit eternal life and have a throne. Judas was one of the 12 apostles, a follower of Jesus, and left everything to follow him.

It is also your position that Judas will neither inherit eternal life nor sit on a throne:

Seems pretty clear that Judas lost his salvation after having weighed much of the evidences and proofs

Therefore it is your position that Christ told Judas something untrue.

Since He is omniscient God manifest in the flesh, your position implies that not only did Jesus say things that are not true, but that He did so willingly and knowingly.

 

[Runningman]

Your position is that Christ said Judas will sit on a throne with eternal life:



It is also your position that Judas will neither inherit eternal life nor sit on a throne:



Therefore it is your position that Christ told Judas something untrue.

Since He is omniscient God manifest in the flesh, your position implies that not only did Jesus say things that are not true, but that He did so willingly and knowingly.

No.

This thread is about OSAS debunked. So my position is that OSAS is false. When Jesus said things about people getting eternal life it wasn’t always a guarantee because eternal life isn’t instant and it’s conditional though we can have the guarantee of eternal life now, it requires perseverance until the end.

Eternal life is given to those who are worthy of the resurrection in the age to come. Hence Jesus said, “will inherit eternal life” not they they have inherited eternal life.

Matthew 19
29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.


Luke 20
35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Jude 1
21keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

James 1
12Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

 

[Runningman]

I don’t believe that It’s possible to believe then not believe but I do think It’s possible to believe then decide to reject.

It’s possible because people can change their mind for a variety of reasons. Jesus said so when he explained the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13.

Also, consider something Paul said:

1 Corinthians 15
1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

It’s definitely a wake up call and quite serious. Hence why we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I hope I’m not preaching in vain, but I often am. Anyway, I can only inform people. God bless.

 

[cv5]

Luke 20
35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Better stated "they which SHALL BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY"

Strong's: G2661 kataxioō
English: shall be accounted worthy
Code: V-APP-NPM
Long: Verb - Aorist Passive Participle - Nominative Plural Masculine

Definition of "Aorist"
Is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time.

 

[cv5]

It’s possible because people can change their mind for a variety of reasons. Jesus said so when he explained the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13.

Also, consider something Paul said:

1 Corinthians 15
1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

It’s definitely a wake up call and quite serious. Hence why we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I hope I’m not preaching in vain, but I often am. Anyway, I can only inform people. God bless.

you hold firmly to the word (OF FAITH IN THE NAME AND COMPLETED WORK OF JESUS) I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

The truly saved NEVER lose faith because they KNOW Him and THEREBY have put their trust in Him, furthermore it is the Lord Himself who maintains it.

 

[posthuman]

When Jesus said things about people getting eternal life it wasn’t always a guarantee

I don't know why you are not comprehending this:

Matthew 19:28 is a prophecy.
Your position is that it is a false prophecy.
Therefore your position is that Jesus is a false prophet.

You should get a different position.

 

[cv5]

I don't know why you are not comprehending this:

Matthew 19:28 is a prophecy.
Your position is that it is a false prophecy.
Therefore your position is that Jesus is a false prophet.

You should get a different position.

Not to mention the OT prophecies. Here is some commentary you might find interesting.....

"Luke, author of the book of Acts, in citing the Old Testament text, changes the plural “their,” to the singular “his,” and makes the application to Judas. This demonstrates that the Holy Spirit has control over his own words and he, therefore, could alter the language so as to accommodate a different situation in a New Testament context. In the Old Testament setting, the pronoun referred to David’s adversaries (plural), while the use of the text by Peter had reference to the persecution of David’s illustrious descendant by his apostate apostle, Judas. Hence, “his” (not “their”) “habitation” or “office,” i.e., his “position of responsibility” was terminated permanently (Danker et al., 379). “Another” (heteros—another of a different kind; Thayer, 254) would replace him (v. 20). That person was Matthias (v. 26).

A comparison of Psalm 69:25 with Acts 1:16, 20, reveals that an Old Testament text may have a primary application, but an ultimate fulfillment. In the former case, the Spirit was making a point with reference to David, but he also foretold of a distant, final fulfillment in Judas. This is a legitimate approach to prophecy; the expression “double fulfillment” is a meaningless tautology, even though commonly employed."

 

[posthuman]

Hence Jesus said, “will inherit eternal life” not they they have inherited eternal life.

John 6:54
Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 10:27-30
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.




God does not fail.
God is never mistaken.
Nothing He says is untrue.

Whenever you have a position that makes God fail, that makes Him wrong about something, or makes anything He says anything less than 100% accurate..

Your position is wrong. Get a different position.