Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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KostasLT said:
Still free will makes more sense than eternal security. The risk of falling away from faith is real, especially in our days.

I never denied He is sovereign. But this you are saved forever and can't turn away doctrine doesn't sound godly at all, and is very harmful to Christians, often leading to laziness and self-justification.
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I apologize. I never intended to suggest you did.
 
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Runningman said:
I'm pretty sure you don't understand what it means to be in Christ just based off of what you said. Please don't take that as a knock, but rather as a wakeup call.

So much more could be said about how Christ is in His Father and how we are in Christ. Even Christ gave stories about vines and branches being cut off to help illustrate how this works, Paul did too, but I find that it's better if you have something more direct, concrete, and open to less interpretation. Hebrews 3 provides it.

Hebrews 3
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.
14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first.
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Read Romans 4. It's not to the Jews, but the body of Christ. Rightly divide the word of truth.
 
KostasLT said:
Still free will makes more sense than eternal security.
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Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.

"free will" to LOSE Salvation?

Depends Who "The New Owner" Of The Purchased Possession
Is, ("not your own" 1Co 6:19,20, 7:23) Correct?:

With A Multitude Of Scriptural Confirmation:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...
 
GRACE_ambassador said:
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.

"free will" to LOSE Salvation?

Depends Who "The New Owner" Of The Purchased Possession
Is, ("not your own" 1Co 6:19,20, 7:23) Correct?:

With A Multitude Of Scriptural Confirmation:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...
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Hebrews 3:12-14 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
 
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KostasLT said:
Still free will makes more sense than eternal security. The risk of falling away from faith is real, especially in our days.

I never denied He is sovereign. But this you are saved forever and can't turn away doctrine doesn't sound godly at all, and is very harmful to Christians, often leading to laziness and self-justification. We aren't yet in Heaven.
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do you really believe in yourself more then you believe in Him?
 
KostasLT said:
No.

This said, we also need to do our effort. The relationship between Christ and the Church is equated to a marriage covenant. And to make a marriage last, the constant sacrifice of both parties is required. Since the sacrifice of Christ is eternal, it is now our turn.
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Your answer undercuts your argument. We need an eternal covenant
KostasLT said:
No.

This said, we also need to do our effort. The relationship between Christ and the Church is equated to a marriage covenant. And to make a marriage last, the constant sacrifice of both parties is required. Since the sacrifice of Christ is eternal, it is now our turn.
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What we need is a foolproof covenant that we can't screw up. That's what we have in Christ.
 
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Sorry. That previous post came out convoluted. My point was that mankind has never kept any covenant with God. If God doesn't make a covenant that depends entirely upon Him, mankind is in big trouble. Thankfully, He has done that in Christ.
 
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Cameron143 said:
Sorry. That previous post came out convoluted. My point was that mankind has never kept any covenant with God. If God doesn't make a covenant that depends entirely upon Him, mankind is in big trouble. Thankfully, He has done that in Christ.
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Well, at least you're honest. This is what all eternal security folks are thinking but won't admit. Eternal security absolves a person from any and all personal responsibility for the state and destination of their own soul. The popularity of such a teaching shouldn't surprise anyone considering the cowardly state of the world we live in. Don't look at me, it's not my responsibility!

"And He said to me, 'It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.' " Revelation 21:6-8
 
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ResidentAlien said:
Well, at least you're honest. This is what all eternal security folks are thinking but won't admit. Eternal security absolves a person from any and all personal responsibility for the state and destination of their own soul. The popularity of such a teaching shouldn't surprise anyone considering the cowardly state of the world we live in. Don't look at me, it's not my responsibility!

"And He said to me, 'It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.' " Revelation 21:6-8
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And you honestly reply as one who believes we absolve ourselves from personal responsibility. We know we are guilty under the law. That's what makes grace so amazing. We should be condemned but are not. We actually should still be condemned for our sins post salvation as well. But God, in Christ, has removed our reproach once and forever.
 
Cameron143 said:
And you honestly reply as one who believes we absolve ourselves from personal responsibility. We know we are guilty under the law. That's what makes grace so amazing. We should be condemned but are not. We actually should still be condemned for our sins post salvation as well. But God, in Christ, has removed our reproach once and forever.
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Salvation is more than just knowing something, it acting like you know it. This is where you very unfortunately are mistaken.
 
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ResidentAlien said:
Salvation is more than just knowing something, it acting like you know it. This is where you very unfortunately are mistaken.
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I don't disagree. A truly redeemed person will have works. But they merely evidence what God has done, not cause Him to see your merit in doing them.
 
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Cameron143 said:
Sorry. That previous post came out convoluted. My point was that mankind has never kept any covenant with God. If God doesn't make a covenant that depends entirely upon Him, mankind is in big trouble. Thankfully, He has done that in Christ.
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Yes, but we are still accountable for our actions. And if we are not obedient to Him, He will punish us.
 
ResidentAlien said:
Salvation is more than just knowing something, it acting like you know it. This is where you very unfortunately are mistaken.
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Salvation is based upon believing ON/IN the one who saves (Christ Jesus) and His work.... and that His work is completely efficacious/sufficient to save.

Otherwise what exactly are you trusting Jesus For?
 
Cameron143 said:
I don't disagree. A truly redeemed person will have works. But they merely evidence what God has done, not cause Him to see your merit in doing them.
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Theological double-talk that allows you to avoid accountability. It's understandable why people fall for it.
 
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