it's not input it's getting you to look at yourself, who are you trusting yourself or Jesus
Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
it's not input it's getting you to look at yourself, who are you trusting yourself or Jesus
Wrong. OSAS is what Jesus taught Himself. So you are in opposition to what Jesus taught. Shame.
You've shown nothing biblical.
Your opposition is directly toward the Lord Jesus Christ. He taught eternal security, from the moment of saving faith (Jn 5:24). Those who are given eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28
And you can't prove Him wrong. No matter how HARD or VIGOROUS you may try.
Jesus is right and you are wrong.
You did. You said you “place your faith in Jesus Christ”, when if fact our faith comes from God to us.
JPT
Jesus never taught the false demonic teaching of OSAS.
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:27-28
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
Eternal life is given to those who hear and follow (obey) Jesus Christ.
No one can follow Him unless they hear and obey Him as He leads them in the way of life; along the narrow and difficult way that leads to life.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
- and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
JPT
Works gospel right here.
Jesus is DESCRIBING His sheep, NOT saying that the sheep following Him is what gives them eternal life.
Call it what you want, I would like to be a disciple of the Lord indeed.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
This word indeed is also translated as "surely" and "of a truth". Apparently there are a lot of people claiming to be disciples of the Lord and that is not "of a truth".
Is there anything that's not works gospel in your opinion? Just believe and do whatever you want?
It not a fact that our action of believing comes from God. Because no verse says or even hints that.
FreeGrace2 said:
Wrong. OSAS is what Jesus taught Himself. So you are in opposition to what Jesus taught. Shame.
iow, if someone does X, then they will have Y. But if they don't do X, they won't have Y.
So, prove that v.27 is a condition by specifically explaining the words that form a condition.
[QUOTE[My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
Eternal life is given to those who hear and follow (obey) Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE]
That's not what Jesus said. v.27 is a DESCRIPTION of what His sheep (already saved) DO, or OUGHT TO DO. There is no condition found in v.27 that links to v.28. Your reading skills need some honing.
Pure and simple.
This verse teaches who possesses (HAS) eternal life: which is believers. This means believers possess eternal life WHEN they become believers.
So, at the VERY BEGINNING of their Christian life, they possess eternal life and shall never perish.
And you can't show the opposite.
You may want to confess that sin of blasphemy about what Jesus taught.
Just saying.
Wrong. OSAS is what Jesus taught Himself. So you are in opposition to what Jesus taught. Shame.
What an interesting way to describe what Jesus taught.
If you want to argue that v.27 is a condition for "never perishing" in v.28, you would be as wrong as possible. There are NO WORDS in v.27 that creates a condition. Do you understand what a conditional statement is? Sort of an "if...then" type of construction.
iow, if someone does X, then they will have Y. But if they don't do X, they won't have Y.
So, prove that v.27 is a condition by specifically explaining the words that form a condition.
[QUOTE[My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
Eternal life is given to those who hear and follow (obey) Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE]
That's not what Jesus said. v.27 is a DESCRIPTION of what His sheep (already saved) DO, or OUGHT TO DO. There is no condition found in v.27 that links to v.28. Your reading skills need some honing.
None of this is relevant. v.27 is a description of what saved people (His sheep) DO. v.28 is the result of being given eternal life.
Pure and simple.
Sure. Just pick out any kind of verse and pretend it applies to what Jesus said in v.28.
This passage teaches there will be two resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.
This verse teaches who possesses (HAS) eternal life: which is believers. This means believers possess eternal life WHEN they become believers.
So, at the VERY BEGINNING of their Christian life, they possess eternal life and shall never perish.
And you can't show the opposite.
You may want to confess that sin of blasphemy about what Jesus taught.
Just saying.
The gospel message ISN'T "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and WORK YOUR BEHIND OFF".
Paul's answer to the jailer says it all. Believe...and you will be saved.
Why do so many believers just refuse to believe the clear words of Jesus regarding how to "never perish"??
So just believe and you can do whatever you want. That's essentially what you're saying.
without a doubt they are saying you can be "saved" without being a "disciple indeed"
No, please pay attention. Jesus SAID that those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH. John 10:28
So, the only question that remains is: to WHOM does He give the gift of eternal life?
That is answered in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
He SAID: "whoever hears and believes...HAS eternal life".
When does a person have eternal life. When they become a believer.
These dots are so close you just can't help but connect them.
Those who believe have/possess eternal life. John 5:24
Those given eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28
If you don't believe these clear words, you don't believe Jesus, because He said them.
However, to put your feverish mind to rest about those who believe and then "do whatever they want", know this: God's hand of discipline is PAINFUL, per Heb 12:11.
What did Paul teach about the incestuous believer in 1 Cor 5?
v.5 - hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
Do you have any idea what might be involved when sinful believers are turned over to Satan "for the destruction of the flesh"?
This isn't about some simple "slap on the wrist" kind of thing. Oh no. When Satan is allowed to kill (destruction of the flesh) a believer, you can bet it won't be pretty.
1 Pter 5:8 - Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
So, put that busybody mind of yours to rest.
No one "gets away" with anything. God is just. He WILL take care of His children who stray. And it's none of your business.
I've noticed those who don't have a straightforward case use many words to distract from this fact.
Being a disciple is mentioned 255 times in the book of Acts and the gospels.
Being saved is mentioned 30 times in the four gospels and Acts. If you include the entire NT it is only mentioned 57 times.
It is very clear that the Lord for every time He mentioned saved referred to the disciples 8x.
This is what I hate about this discussion, I have been told by one poster that being saved (meaning justified by faith) is the only thing that matters. That is not what I hear from the Lord.
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
We are running in a race. Justified by faith is the start. The idea that you would focus exclusively on the start and ignore the entire race, my feeling is, find another coach. It isn't a sprint, it is a marathon.
Remember Zacchaeus. When he said he would repay whatever he had stolen, Jesus didn't say: "No no, you mustn't think like this. Only believe, don't do anything to demonstrate your belief." No, He said: "Today salvation has come to this house."
They bury their beliefs in many sentences either to keep their false doctrine from being discovered, or to hide their ignorancr of the truth.
English Standard Version