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Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
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How do you not know that sin entered the world through one man?
The first Adam is/was not God.
I'd like to see the verse that explicitly shows God caused Adam to sin... directing his steps to disobey.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
This is the most scary thing I have ever heard. If God caused adam to disobey him..
That is the claim, isn't it? Calvinism at its worst... denying the influence of Satan, to say, God did it!
Allowing for something to happen is not the same thing as causing something to happen.
Apparently some lack the discernment required to distinguish between the two...
How could sin enter the world by the first man created if sin didn't pre-exist man?
God created Eden and all that exists in six days. And when he had finished he judged it very good.
In the center of Eden God planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Its fruit, as we're told by God later, once consumed would make the consumer like into God. With the knowledge of good and evil.
The dual aspects of reality. Good, evil, dark,light.
Then God told the man, who did not know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong, to not eat of that tree.
Then, God let the serpent enter the garden. And the serpent knew of the forbidden tree and the conditions surrounding it, which is how he knew the exact tree to slither onto so to tempt Eve. When God had only directed Adam in the rules against eating its fruit, leaving it to Adam to inform Eve.
God sets his steps.
Eden wasn't paradise when there was 1 tree planted and designed by God to initiate the fall of man.
If man wasn't to fall, the tree would not exist. The serpent would not have gained access to that precise tree. And being God created all things, the serpent could not hide its true nature from Omniscience.
We also know the fall was planned because God tells us, before the foundation of the world, its creation, he wrote the names of his elect, those whom he would call unto his Salvation, before the fall took place, in his book of life. The Lamb's Book of Life.
He chose whom he would save, and by name, before he created anything at all.
I'm not Calvinist btw. Augustine brought what is attributed to Calvin into the church many years prior to Calvin.
Where did those teachings derive from? God's words.
Satan was created by God. In the OT he still returned to heaven to confer with God. He can do almost nothing without God allowing it.
That's scripture too.
It isn't Calvinism, it's God's own words. Ignore them as you will, but don't call foul against people who don't
Where is the verse that explicitly states that God directed Adam's steps, causing him to disobey?
Sin DID pre-exist Adam. In heaven, when Satan rebelled. Isa 14:12-14
To be clear, Sen 1:2ff is a restoration, not a creation. That occurred in v.1.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
In all those prior posted verses you choose to ignore. How, before God created the world, does a book of names of people chosen for Salvation by God come to exist before there was a reason for man to need saving?
None of those verses articulate what you claim.
How, before God created the world, does a book of names of people chosen for Salvation by God come to exist before there was a reason for man to need saving?
We all know such a verse does not exist, except for you, apparently.
Sin entered the world due to an act of rebellion against God.
God did not make Adam sin.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Don’t you know?
God not only MADE adam sin, He made all these people unable to even believe in him, just so he can send them to hell. And then blame them. For something they had no control over.
True.
How does evil and sin exist in Heaven?
You're referring to Genesis 1?
The Creation of the World
1 In the beginning[a] God created[c] the heavens and the earth.[d]
2 Now[e] the earth[f] was without shape and empty,[g] and darkness[h] was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God[j] was moving[k] over the surface[l] of the water.
That's precisely what you've been doing and saying all along.
You therefore deny God's Omniscience.
You won't put it together when it's right there in God's own words.
As Jesus said, not all are meant to understand. You don't. No one can overcome God's will.
God knew the names of people he would save before anything was created at all. Including before there was any reason for named people to be saved.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yeah, just another false accusation.
God knowing what is going to happen is not God causing it either.
Allowing for something to happen is not the same thing as causing something to happen.
Apparently some lack the discernment required to distinguish between the two...
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
She confuses me, Depending on what topic she is arguing she seems to contradict herself.
Denying that man has a will capable of choosing is a bad place for anyone to start... or end.
James 1:13-15
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
My next panel! 
(I have just started it 
)
What you have said is truly amazing, stating the exact opposite of what scripture says regarding salvation.
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."
The New Living Translation covers it pretty good:
"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."
Abraham was credited with righteousness solely because he believed God, without performing any works.
Cornelius and his household were saved through their faith. For Peter said that God purified their hearts through faith. While Peter was still speaking, they all began to prophesy and speak in languages.
The man on the cross was not able to come down to perform any works and was saved by having faith in Christ.
Good works come as a result of faith and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. We look forward to doing them in order to glorify God and by doing so we are building up our treasures in heaven. However, we are not saved by them.
Revelation 20:11-15, is in reference to the unrighteous dead throughout all of history, all who died without faith. They will not be judged according to their works as in weighing the good and bad, as though they could tip the scales and possibly enter into eternal life. They will be judged according their works of the sinful nature. The names of those at that judgment will, will not be found in the book of life. The very fact that their spirits are being released from Hades tells us that they have no hope of salvation, otherwise they wouldn't be in there in the first place.