ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, HYPER GRACE, ETERNAL SECURITY = FALSE DOCTRINE PROVEN!

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mailmandan said:
Saved out of Egypt means they were delivered (saved out of Egypt). It doesn't mean they were all saved by grace through faith. The Lord delivered His people (the Israelites) out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe (Jude 1:5). Nothing is mentioned here about them previously believing and being saved, but now they stopped believing and are no longer saved, but lost.
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It means exactly that. Israel was saved out of Egypt by grace through faith. GOD passed over the judgment rightfully due them IF they had faith in GOD's command to apply blood of a lamb on their dwelling. That is grace. They didn't earn their salvation; it was a gift of GOD because of his faithfulness to his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
 
kathryn said:
Dont forget the third example in the parable. The people became believers, but they kept getting distracted from the path by the cares of this world. Notice Jesus says because of this they did not mature in the faith, it doesn't say they ceased to be believers. For you only mature by persevering in following after the holy spirit.
Many today do not mature because of this but remain babes in the faith. However, in the second example if we accept the words of Christ the people became believers.
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Show me where it says the thorny ground hearers became believers. Also, show me where it says they PRODUCED FRUIT. No fruit, no root = no salvation. Again, even though this shallow ground hearer is said to "believe" they were never said to have been "saved." The Jews in John 8:31 were said to have "believed in Him" yet what does Jesus say throughout the next several verses about them? Does that sound descriptive of genuine believers/children of God? Show me the fruit. No fruit/produces nothing = dead faith/not saved.
 
mailmandan said:
You left out all the facts. Believed (in a shallow way) and received the word with joy (emotional response) does not mean they were saved. Please read post #450 again.
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They did not believe in a shallow way, they believed and were born in the spirit like any other person who believes. They were shallow persons (soil) with no depth to make them able to endure the harsh realities of life.
 
mailmandan said:
Show me where it says the thorny ground hearers became believers. Also, show me where it says they PRODUCED FRUIT. No fruit, no root = no salvation. Again, even though this shallow ground hearer is said to "believe" they were never said to have been "saved." The Jews in John 8:31 were said to have "believed in Him" yet what does Jesus say throughout the next several verses about them? Does that sound descriptive of genuine believers/children of God? Show me the fruit. No fruit/produces nothing = dead faith/not saved.
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The seed is the word; the word produces life. Not natural life, but spiritual life. You can't have spiritual life without being born from above. The new birth is the definition of being saved. The plants that bore no fruit were saved, but loved the world more than GOD.
 
mailmandan said:
Show me where it says the thorny ground hearers became believers. Also, show me where it says they PRODUCED FRUIT. No fruit, no root = no salvation. Again, even though this shallow ground hearer is said to "believe" they were never said to have been "saved." The Jews in John 8:31 were said to have "believed in Him" yet what does Jesus say throughout the next several verses about them? Does that sound descriptive of genuine believers/children of God? Show me the fruit. No fruit/produces nothing = dead faith/not saved.
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The seed that fell among the thorns stands for those who here but as they go on their way they are choked by lifes worries, riches and pleasures and they do not MATURE luke 8:14

Read Heb 5:11-14

The writer is explaining to his readers that they need to hear the elementary truths of Gods word again. They should by now be teachers but are not. They still need milk not solid food after all this time. They remain infants in the faith.
Solid food is for those who have continually followed the right path without being distracted from it. The third example in the parable of the sower.

Do you believe everyone who has not produced a bountiful harvest for the kingdom is condemned to hell?
 
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
It means exactly that. Israel was saved out of Egypt by grace through faith. GOD passed over the judgment rightfully due them IF they had faith in GOD's command to apply blood of a lamb on their dwelling. That is grace. They didn't earn their salvation; it was a gift of GOD because of his faithfulness to his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
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The Israelites were delivered out of Egypt but in the end, not all of them believed and were destroyed. Obviously then not all of them truly believed, even though they went along with Moses for a while.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
They did not believe in a shallow way, they believed and were born in the spirit like any other person who believes. They were shallow persons (soil) with no depth to make them able to endure the harsh realities of life.
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Show me where the Bible says the shallow ground hearers were "born in the spirit"? They had NO ROOT and PRODUCED NO FRUIT. That says it all right there. You can believe otherwise if you like. I made all of my points very clear.
 
mailmandan said:
Show me where it says the thorny ground hearers became believers. Also, show me where it says they PRODUCED FRUIT. No fruit, no root = no salvation. Again, even though this shallow ground hearer is said to "believe" they were never said to have been "saved." The Jews in John 8:31 were said to have "believed in Him" yet what does Jesus say throughout the next several verses about them? Does that sound descriptive of genuine believers/children of God? Show me the fruit. No fruit/produces nothing = dead faith/not saved.
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You are very much at odds with every other osas believer in this thread. Most of them appear to believe no matter how you act as a Christian you will receive eternal life.
Your view is the most conservative I have come across, only those who produce a bountiful harvest are saved. If you truly think about it, how many who believe they are christians does that cut out of the faith?
 
kathryn said:
The seed that fell among the thorns stands for those who here but as they go on their way they are choked by lifes worries, riches and pleasures and they do not MATURE luke 8:14

Read Heb 5:11-14

The writer is explaining to his readers that they need to hear the elementary truths of Gods word again. They should by now be teachers but are not. They still need milk not solid food after all this time. They remain infants in the faith.
Solid food is for those who have continually followed the right path without being distracted from it. The third example in the parable of the sower.

Do you believe everyone who has not produced a bountiful harvest for the kingdom is condemned to hell?
Click to expand...
Luke 8:14 says they BRING NO FRUIT TO MATURITY, in other words they PRODUCE NOTHING because the seed was CHOKED OUT. It's not talking about the person being saved but not maturing, so Hebrews 5:11-14 is irrelevant to your case here. All Christians are fruitful, but not all Christians are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Christians are NOT FRUITLESS.
 
kathryn said:
The seed that fell among the thorns stands for those who here but as they go on their way they are choked by lifes worries, riches and pleasures and they do not MATURE luke 8:14

Read Heb 5:11-14

The writer is explaining to his readers that they need to hear the elementary truths of Gods word again. They should by now be teachers but are not. They still need milk not solid food after all this time. They remain infants in the faith.
Solid food is for those who have continually followed the right path without being distracted from it. The third example in the parable of the sower.

Do you believe everyone who has not produced a bountiful harvest for the kingdom is condemned to hell?
Click to expand...

​And I, brothers, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual [people], but as to fleshly [people], as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, for you were not yet able [to eat it]. But now you are still not able, for you are still fleshly. For where [there is] jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and do you not live like [unregenerate] people? 1 Corinthians 3:1-3
 
mailmandan said:
Luke 8:14 says they BRING NO FRUIT TO MATURITY, in other words they PRODUCE NOTHING because the seed was CHOKED OUT. It's not talking about the person being saved but not maturing, so Hebrews 5:11-14 is irrelevant to your case here. All Christians are fruitful, but not all Christians are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Christians are NOT FRUITLESS.
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I will leave it there, or it will just be going round in circles. I have simply quoted the bible, not needed to do exegesis of it
God bless
 
Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.


We should be talking about Jesus and His great salvation - what we are now in Christ because of His finished work. Look at Paul's prayers..they were all geared to growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus our Lord.

The true Christian life is about growing up in Him...not trying to get some bible knowledge...the Pharisees and Sadducees knew the scriptures but did not know Christ.

John 5:39-40 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
[SUP]40 [/SUP] and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

It's all about Jesus folks!....let's focus on Him.

I believe this should be our area of focus in our Christian life..
 
mailmandan said:
Luke 8:14 says they BRING NO FRUIT TO MATURITY, in other words they PRODUCE NOTHING because the seed was CHOKED OUT. It's not talking about the person being saved but not maturing, so Hebrews 5:11-14 is irrelevant to your case here. All Christians are fruitful, but not all Christians are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Christians are NOT FRUITLESS.
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The plant was choked out, not the seed. The seed produced life.
 
Grace777x70 said:
Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.


We should be talking about Jesus and His great salvation - what we are now in Christ because of His finished work. Look at Paul's prayers..they were all geared to growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus our Lord.

The true Christian life is about growing up in Him...not trying to get some bible knowledge...the Pharisees and Sadducees knew the scriptures but did not know Christ.

John 5:39-40 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
[SUP]40 [/SUP] and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

It's all about Jesus folks!....let's focus on Him.

I believe this should be our area of focus in our Christian life..
Click to expand...

We are talking about Jesus and his great salvation. Faith without correct doctrine is a phony faith.
 
Grace777x70 said:
Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.


We should be talking about Jesus and His great salvation - what we are now in Christ because of His finished work. Look at Paul's prayers..they were all geared to growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus our Lord.

The true Christian life is about growing up in Him...not trying to get some bible knowledge...the Pharisees and Sadducees knew the scriptures but did not know Christ.

John 5:39-40 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
[SUP]40 [/SUP] and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

It's all about Jesus folks!....let's focus on Him.

I believe this should be our area of focus in our Christian life..
Click to expand...

As an osas believer, can I ask you?
Do you believe in the parable of the sower the third example is not in a saved state, only the fourth?
Please dont direct me to someone else's commentary, I would just like your personal opinion if you have one
 
mailmandan said:
Luke 8:14 says they BRING NO FRUIT TO MATURITY, in other words they PRODUCE NOTHING because the seed was CHOKED OUT. It's not talking about the person being saved but not maturing, so Hebrews 5:11-14 is irrelevant to your case here. All Christians are fruitful, but not all Christians are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Christians are NOT FRUITLESS.
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Sorry, there was something of yours i failed to address. We must accept the seed that fell on thorny ground was not of people who never followed the correct path but kept getting distracted from it, as people do today. If they never followed the correct path at all Jesus would not have said they did not mature but rather they walked away or were not saved. My apologies for missing this. Though I still see no point in further debate, we have given our views fully
God bless
 
I haven't looked at it in depth yet. I'll study it out and get back to you.


kathryn said:
As an osas believer, can I ask you?
Do you believe in the parable of the sower the third example is not in a saved state, only the fourth?
Please dont direct me to someone else's commentary, I would just like your personal opinion if you have one
Click to expand...
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:

​And I, brothers, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual [people], but as to fleshly [people], as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, for you were not yet able [to eat it]. But now you are still not able, for you are still fleshly. For where [there is] jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and do you not live like [unregenerate] people? 1 Corinthians 3:1-3
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Good scripture to make the point. Paul calls them brothers but they have not matured in the faith
 
People that are older in the faith is based completely on their understanding on the "word of righteousness"....the righteousness of Christ and who we are in Him.

Hebrews 5:12-14 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Being able to discern between the good and evil = "doing one's own righteousness".....or "relying on Christ's righteousness "

Growing up in Christ has nothing to do with "bible knowledge"...it has everything to do with understanding His righteousness...that we are in Him...growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus our Lord.

It is so obvious how people throw "scriptures" around to degrade their fellow brothers/sisters in the Lord...to show how superior they are as they call others "carnal"....you know it's no wonder the world doesn't want to have much to do with us....when they see this kind of behavior...who would want to be a part of that family??....shameful!
 
It is so obvious how people throw scriptures around to degrade their fellow brothers/sisters in the Lord to show how superior they are..................


And some who do that sit back and berate others for doing what they do themselves.

However, trying to show superiority to others would be claiming to be the fourth example in the parable of the sower. Please note, I have not said only the fourth example can be christians

You didn't answer my question plainly, but no problem
 
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