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Jesus has given us the greatest gift in all creation, and all we do is screw it up by making it so difficult for people to ascertain His gift and receive it with trust and gratitude. Not you, sister, I'm speaking in general terms.
G
Gr8grace
Guest
If we think it, we've done it. I will be honest with you, by the standards that the loss of salvation crowd uses........I am going to the Lof.
By Christs standards I am going to be face to face with Him the moment i die.
So if we are willing to put Brothers and Sisters in the lake of fire?.........I would say there are many unrepentant murderers in Christianity. Still saved, but I think they will be tear free, happy,content, sin free shoe shiners in the eternal state.
K
KennethC
Guest
Because eternal security as man teaches it is not how the Word of God teaches it.
Man teaches we are eternally secured to receive eternal life no matter how we walk........
Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John taught no such doctrine as that.
They all warned about falling away and Jesus gave strict warnings about being disobedient servants, not a one of them taught falling away or departing from the faith was impossible.
Jesus when speaking of those that are His that could not be plucked from His hand was speaking on those who continue to follow Him. As long as we stay in His ways following His guidance from His teachings then we will be secure in our faith in Him that will lead us to eternal life.
Those who do not build on that foundation and stay weak by not following His teachings the scriptures say are still in danger of perishing !!!
The original eternal security doctrine started by Augustine in the 4th century stated falling away and apostasy were both impossible. Calvin when he adopted this doctrine and coined the term once saved always saved, kept the falling away as impossible but disagreed with the apostasy.
Sad thing is apostasy is falling away from the truth, so in turn it means the same thing !!!
Read the post again. I said it was all mine( including your quote) if I am following after the holy spirit
I wish I was given all the gifts of the Spirit.
I wish I could walk perfectly before the Lord.
But I have to rely on His Grace and Mercy.
I don't take this for granted.
I consider it quite a gift.
Even more of a gift than if I had been given all the gifts of the spirit...
But even under grace the christian cannot abdicate all responsibility from themself. They have to choose whether they will continue looking to Christ and trusting him to evermore change them, or whether they will look away to the flesh, for you cannot do both at the same time.
There is a way to lose your salvation ( as if it is "yours" that obtain it for you ).....but you have to be able to use a lot of imagination and have a very ,low opinion of our Lord's sacrifice and the integrity of our Father..( oh brother.. )
John 10:27-30 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.[SUP]29 [/SUP] "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] "I and the Father are one."
You have to be NOT a "no one"...so no one mean everything one else but you.....
All's you do is wrestle yourself out of Jesus' hand..then once you have Him beat..then you are ready to take on the Father. ( He's a little tougher but you will have experience now on how to pluck yourself out of His hand )
In order to scare Jesus and the Father first you must..I repeat MUST intimidate Them with your mighty power by verbally accusing Them....you can tell them that they lied when He said " I will never leave nor forsake you"
Then because you are in Christ...He is going to have to stop being a High Priest for you..( again God lied when He said He is a priest forever...)
His blood which He spilled for all sins that supposedly have been taken away..that has to stop too being efficacious ....Jesus has to stop being the Lamb of God.
Even in the Old Covenant the priest looked at the lamb for blemishes..not the guy who brought the sacrifice.. the Father looks at Jesus....He is our Lamb! He is spotless and blameless.
.."...as He is..so also are we in this world.."
It's all really ridiculous..our salvation is not based on us..it is based on Jesus and His finished work!..He is faithful and grace much more abounds around sin...it's just plain "spiritual ignorance that has gone to seed " to think of His perfect work and that somehow it revolves around us and what we do.
John 10:28 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I "give" eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the "gift" of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Romans 11:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
( Somehow some obscure passages of scripture that people take without looking at it in context nullifies all the vast proof of scriptures that speak otherwise of the integrity of God and HIs completed work....is it possible we have those scriptures interpreted wrong because we look through the wrong "lens"?...of course.. )
John 10:27-30 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.[SUP]29 [/SUP] "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] "I and the Father are one."
You have to be NOT a "no one"...so no one mean everything one else but you.....
All's you do is wrestle yourself out of Jesus' hand..then once you have Him beat..then you are ready to take on the Father. ( He's a little tougher but you will have experience now on how to pluck yourself out of His hand )
In order to scare Jesus and the Father first you must..I repeat MUST intimidate Them with your mighty power by verbally accusing Them....you can tell them that they lied when He said " I will never leave nor forsake you"
Then because you are in Christ...He is going to have to stop being a High Priest for you..( again God lied when He said He is a priest forever...)
His blood which He spilled for all sins that supposedly have been taken away..that has to stop too being efficacious ....Jesus has to stop being the Lamb of God.
Even in the Old Covenant the priest looked at the lamb for blemishes..not the guy who brought the sacrifice.. the Father looks at Jesus....He is our Lamb! He is spotless and blameless.
.."...as He is..so also are we in this world.."
It's all really ridiculous..our salvation is not based on us..it is based on Jesus and His finished work!..He is faithful and grace much more abounds around sin...it's just plain "spiritual ignorance that has gone to seed " to think of His perfect work and that somehow it revolves around us and what we do.
John 10:28 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I "give" eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the "gift" of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Romans 11:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
( Somehow some obscure passages of scripture that people take without looking at it in context nullifies all the vast proof of scriptures that speak otherwise of the integrity of God and HIs completed work....is it possible we have those scriptures interpreted wrong because we look through the wrong "lens"?...of course.. )
The victory is yours? Are you kidding?
The victory belongs to Jesus alone; you are merely a recipient of His benevolence.
K
KennethC
Guest
Yes sheep can get distracted and nobody here is preaching any form of sinless perfection to get to heaven, that was squashed some time back.
The difference being a struggling Christian or when we sin here or there does not constitute the same as being a habitual sinner or a deliberate sinner as the bible defines.
It is saddening to see examples of people who have repented or one time future sin that may happen as an excuse to allow sinful behavior to always take place in our lives.
I have even seen sin so badly downplayed it gets ignored like its no big thing, pretty much like saying, "I sinned oh well no big deal God's grace will cover it."
That's dangerous thinking because even Apostle Paul warned Apostle Timothy not once but twice about partaking in sin again. Most of Paul's rebukes in the epistles were also directed at believers, not unbelievers !!!
Read the post again. I never said the victory was through my effort and achievement.
But I have responsibility as a christian.
I hope you are not going to start distorting what I write
I suppose.
Its not much of a choice...
Do you choose perfection or destruction?
What did the sheep choose who wandered from the flock? It probably wasn't an actual conscious decision to be parted from the Shepherd. It was probably a bunch of little distractions...
And then how does the sheep make it back to the Shepherd? Its probably not actual navigational skills matched with good map reading skills. It probably has more to do with the Shepherd coming after the little, distracted, dummy...
I love what the Lord Jesus has done for me and my family. I wish I was good enough or smart enough to tell people how they could earn the gift that the Lord Jesus gives. But I don't think it is earned by our deeds. Before or after salvation. If there is a such thing as 'after' salvation.
K
KennethC
Guest
Neither do we take His grace and mercy for granted.....
We don't take and trample on Jesus either, and that is what is done when a person continues to be deliberate or willfully sinful.
None of us are perfect by any means, but that still does not give an excuse to remain in deliberate sinful lifestyles either.
I would love to have all the gifts of the Holy Spirit to, but I understand also those gifts will only be administered through me as the Holy Spirit deems the proper time and place to do them.
I am not like these false people who do these things for show, and definitely not like the other extreme who think that if the gifts still existed then we would be able to go around and just heal everybody.
Jesus did not even heal everybody when He walked in the flesh, there was groups that He walked through trying to be healed by Him. It does not state He healed them all, but only states that He kept walking and only stopped when He felt the healing power leave Him to go to the woman that touched His garment.
What did Jesus say to that woman? Did He say I have healed you ?
No He said her faith in Him is what healed her !!!
I agree, you don't earn your salvation. But we were not out on this earth as pre programmed robots with a microchip inserted in us to perfectly follow a manual.
In Gal 5:16&17 Paul states the true battle for the christian, spirit against flesh. He says if we are led by the spirit we are not under law
I believe that. If some( I don't mean you) want to then say I am a legalist who believes in works based salvation, that is a cross I will have to bear for believing what scripture states
The gospel does not demand faith..it supplies it!
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ.
Preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and people will experience His salvation.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ.
Preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and people will experience His salvation.
K
KennethC
Guest
Yes but again with the lost sheep you still leave one part off from that passage, the sheep has to repent !!!
K
KennethC
Guest
That gospel message does not come without warnings !!!
The warnings are just as much apart of the gospel as the Grace is, if you teach one and not the other then you teach only half the truth. Which can be just as dangerous as telling a full lie !!!
You know how that sheep repented?..he allowed/consented Jesus (the Shepherd) to carry it on His shoulders and the sheep had to rest in His love for him....as the Great Shepherd carried the sheep all the way home....great example of repentance and trust in our Lord's finished work for us!
And notice the JOY the Lord had in bringing the repentant sheep back...the sheep did nothing but trust and believe....big party in heaven when Jesus brings us to the Father!!