Amen to this! Saul's hands were dirty regarding the death of people who had faith in Jesus, yet he was forgiven to the point that God used him to share the Gospel. Gee, there's a real head scratcher.
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Amen to this! Saul's hands were dirty regarding the death of people who had faith in Jesus, yet he was forgiven to the point that God used him to share the Gospel. Gee, there's a real head scratcher.
I will wait for you to answer your inconsistency.
But I do not personally know of a person who claims to be a christian who murders, is a serial adulterer, thief and constantly takes the Lords name in vain. Nor do I know of any minister who would allow such a person to be a member of their church
K
KennethC
Guest
You are the one who just previously said a believer could continue to be those things and have eternal life, not me !!!
I am not doing any hyperbole as you claim, and I am stating facts as there are teachings going around leading people to ruin.
Telling them they can continue to live however they want, we see a number of these false organizations floating around like the Westboro Baptist church who thinks its okay to preach a hate doctrine. Other branches marrying same sex partners and so on.
I do prison ministry and did you know there is a group called God's disciples who thinks they have the right to beat up and kill other people in the name of God. These aren't Muslims, they are white men who claim to be Christians.
Let's look at the KKK for example to and the hatred and killing of blacks they did, this was done by their stance in the name of Christianity.
How about the Catholic's and Protestants background of killing one another, supposedly in the name of Christ in their minds.
I mean the list goes on and on people thinking they can do and live however they want when in Christ !!!
This issue goes so far back that the Apostle Paul even addressed this in the Corinthian church, so please stop acting like it doesn't exist as it does.
God's grace is wonderful, but it does not allow lewdness to continue in our lives !!!
Apostle Jude addresses this and states those who take His grace to allow lewdness are marked for condemnation !!!
Did Paul AS a christian go around having his hands dirty regarding the death of people who had faith in Jesus?
The Lord's angels will separate out the sheep from the goats at the proper time. It is not our job to try and figure out who is who.
We are to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus our Lord! His grace is scandalous!..and it always begs the question.."what?..does this mean we can sin all we want?"...we have given the answer many times..it just goes over the heads of some....this is a very unfruitful discussion.
1 Corinthians 4:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
We are to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus our Lord! His grace is scandalous!..and it always begs the question.."what?..does this mean we can sin all we want?"...we have given the answer many times..it just goes over the heads of some....this is a very unfruitful discussion.
1 Corinthians 4:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Do you know any christians who get angry?
Do you know any christians who lust after the opposite sex from time to time?
Do you know any christians who have ever taken the Lords name in vain?
Can the Lord forgive these 'little' sins?
K
KennethC
Guest
Yes He does forgive murderers and thieves, etc, but again that is if they truly repent of those ways.
The Word of God clearly states and shows that if a person continues to do those things then their repentance was not true, and God knows our heart and knows if is truly seeking forgiveness or not.
Do you have kids and if so when growing up how many times did they say they were sorry just to get out of punishment, not because they were actually sorry ??? Or how many times did you do that when you were a kid ???
The difference is with our earthly parents we only have physical punishments to worry about for getting out of line and doing wrong. With God the punishment is more then just physical worldly but also can be eternal as well.
Again we are not talking about the condition we were in before coming to Christ, we are talking about after coming to Him.
Nowhere in the bible states we can continue in that same sinful condition and receive eternal life both, our former selves are to be done away with, put to and end/death the deeds of the flesh/sin, and walk in a new nature by and in the Spirit.
When people believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior they are a new creation. God no longer sees the sins of such people but rather God sees Jesus' perfect nature when He looks at them. God's grace is sufficient to all, including your proverbial nonexistent hyperbole people. Quit shutting out the Kingdom of Heaven against people who don't meet your standards but most certainly meet God's.
G
Gr8grace
Guest
David,King Saul.............In fact we water downs Davids rape to adultery. The King GETS what he wants.
David was a mature believer when he WILLINGLY murdered,raped,lied,cheated,stole.
King Saul.............habitually lived this lifestyle for the second half of his life.
Both are in heaven.
Grace is sufficient.
But this isn't the majority Brother. The majority think that their NOT, murdering,lying,cheating,stealing,willingly sinning gains them heaven...............this is the deception. Not a bunch of believers who have "greasy grace."
Religion is satans ace trump, so religion gets the focus off of religion and onto sin.
Your reasoning is faulty.
No one can earn or deserve heaven. It is a free gift. The christian has a righteousness of faith in what Christ did for them at Calvary.
But then they are called to follow after the holy spirit, they have an obligation to do so, then they are not under law but under grace.
But I find it hard to accept if a man joined your church, and as a christian murdered, was a serial adulterer, a constant thief, and repeatedly took the Lords name in vain, you would view it that as no one is perfect in the flesh, and we have a righteousness apart from the law that man is as saved as anyone else.
It may be good head theology for some, but in reality it doesn't work out that way. And i don't know of any minister who would take any other view
What did Jesus say on the Cross? "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they're doing"
Go ahead, dissect that one to mean God's grace is not sufficient.
K
KennethC
Guest
Again you make blanket false allegations never said.........
I have never said I am justified by my own actions, they are about God, His Son, and His Holy Spirit in what He has done and is doing in and through me.
This is why actions/works PROVE one is saved because they come from the Lord Himself by the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not inactive in our lives, He is very active guiding us, teaching us, and chastising us when we start to go astray. So that we can bring every thought captive in the spirit before it becomes full grown and becomes a sin with control over us again.
We are called to imitate Christ and grow in the faith to become mature, not stand still and do nothing !!!
I'm still waiting for you to answer your inconsistency.
I responded to your point, I think it is your turn to now respond to your inconsistencies
Being born again?
This new nature is given to us by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Can we mimic this nature by our deeds?
K
KennethC
Guest
Do you think everybody standing around the cross received eternal life ???
Yes Jesus prayed for forgiveness for them, but still those Roman soldiers and Pharisees that stood around mocking Him and laughing at Him would not have received eternal life if they never from that point on put their faith in Jesus.
I can pray forgiveness for you and others to everyday, but say for example if you never trusted and put faith in Jesus as your Lord and Savior you would not receive eternal life through Christ.
The answer to all of this IMO is to Awake to righteousness and sin not! This should help all the sin-focused people. It's more New Covenant to think Christ-focused and His finished work on our behalf. Think about communion..."Do this..in remembrance of all your sins?...no...of course not..Do this..in remembrance of Me!!"
I hate to tell you this as I don't the hornets to start to fly again...but Christ is the central person in our salvation! It's all Him from start to finish!
I hate to tell you this as I don't the hornets to start to fly again...but Christ is the central person in our salvation! It's all Him from start to finish!
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EXACTLY!!!! That's why the stupid hyperbole example is both a red herring and straw man argument. Understand where I'm coming from? Christians don't go around living like Genghis Kahn.
Why don't we focus on Christ??..how do we walk in Him now that we are saved?
Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness..when you see who you are in Him in your new man.....the new creation....you become like Him outwardly.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells..
Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness..when you see who you are in Him in your new man.....the new creation....you become like Him outwardly.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells..