ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, HYPER GRACE, ETERNAL SECURITY = FALSE DOCTRINE PROVEN!

[Grace777x70]

Ok...seeing as there is no such word in scripture, I looked it up and it means to "fall away" from the faith.....and here is the greek word being used by Paul.."apostasy" is defined here by Paul

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.
verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others..is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort...

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

...

It's better known by the term apostasy

 

[RickyZ]

Ok...seeing as there is no such word in scripture, I looked it up and it means to "fall away" from the faith.....and here is the greek word being used by Paul.."apostasy" is defined here by Paul

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.
verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others..is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort...

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

...

Verse 1a : what will happen (man falling away from faith)

Verses 1b, 2 & 3: How it will happen (by listening to demons and those who preach against the things of God)

Why do you feel the need to elaborate, and twist, this simple truth to make it more palatable to your belief?

Oh that's why, to make it more palatable to your belief.

Don't follow Roger in his quest to substantiate his beliefs by ignoring key aspects of scripture.

 

[Grace777x70]

People make statements about a scripture and I like to go see what is actually being said....people twist scriptures around all the time.....they use a word like "apostasy"..and then apply it to other scriptures to "create" their view. It's a "straw-man" technique...

Paul showed us what this "falling away" is in 1Tim 4:1-5.....you don't have to like what he says...

... you want to use the word "apostasy" to apply it to your belief system...and I want to see how that word is defined by Paul

I like to see the "whole" scripture in context to see what is really being said.

We need to be like the Bereans and be "eager" for the word of God but to search the scriptures to see if what we are being told is true or not..

Acts 17:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

Verse 1a : what will happen (man falling away from faith)

Verses 1b, 2 & 3: How it will happen (by listening to demons and those who preach against the things of God)

Why do you feel the need to elaborate, and twist, this simple truth to make it more palatable to your belief?

Oh that's why, to make it more palatable to your belief.

Don't follow Roger in his quest to substantiate his beliefs by ignoring key aspects of scripture.

 

[popeye]

Mark 11:3

Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them.

Matthew 12:21

Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

Originally Posted by notuptome :
You are not going to move mountains with your faith.
Roger

*******

Mark 16:8 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them

Originally Posted by notuptome
So you believe in taking up deadly serpents? Drinking deadly poisons?
Roger

*******

1Co 14:4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.


Originally Posted by notuptome
What possible reason would one have to speak in an unknown tongue to God?
Roger

*******

1 Corinthians 14: 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues.
1 Corinthians 14: 39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Originally Posted by notuptome :
Paul was not encouraging tongues
Roger






********

Roger, you don't understand because you cannot fathom even the simplest of scriptures.

Mark 11:23,not mark 11:3

 

[RickyZ]

People make statements about a scripture and I like to go see what is actually being said....people twist scriptures around all the time.....they use a word like "apostasy"..and then apply it to other scriptures to "create" their view. It's a "straw-man" technique...

Paul showed us what this "falling away" is in 1Tim 4:1-5.....you don't have to like what he says...

... you want to use the word "apostasy" to apply it to your belief system...and I want to see how that word is defined by Paul

I like to see the "whole" scripture in context to see what is really being said.

We need to be like the Bereans and be "eager" for the word of God but to search the scriptures to see if what we are being told is true or not..

Acts 17:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

Now that I've stopped laughing, let me answer that with this:

Merry Christmas Grace!

 

[RickyZ]

Mark 11:23,not mark 11:3

Thank you for correcting my typo.

Oh wait, I'm supposed to somehow twist Mark 11:3 into Mark 11:23, aren't I?

 

[Grace777x70]

Merry Christmas!....we have a good, loving Father and a wonderful salvation in our Lord Jesus! Enjoy your family this season!

Now that I've stopped laughing, let me answer that with this:

Merry Christmas Grace!

 

[sydlit]

Daily Devotions | Calvary Chapel of Philadelphia

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Coming to Christ is repentance.

Not turning away from sin. But turning away from your own work of perfecting yourself.


So you can put a list of religious duties that all Christians must perform in order to be 'justified' or 'in fellowship'. But in the end, coming to Christ is what straightens everything out... He is the cause of your obedience, your justification, your being in fellowship, etc..

Amen ......

 

[notuptome]

Roger, you don't understand because you cannot fathom even the simplest of scriptures.

You ignored the post to rant about your only love. Do you really think that exhibiting tongues is proof of salvation?

Examine your heart before the Lord according to His word. Did your salvation experience change your heart? Are you different since you have asked Jesus to save you from your sins?

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

A man who has been changed by Christ is forever changed. Dead in trespass and sin now alive in Christ unto righteousness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[BradC]

Those who have to continually denounce the doctrine of eternal security are insecure about God's trustworthiness in keeping what he has promised through his accomplishments on the cross. They have to make sure that they are doing everything right according to the commandments to secure their salvation. They are not sure about God's grace so they accuse others of antinomianism. They are falling short of trusting God completely for a salvation that depends on God and not them. They can't get over that hump of unbelief that it is freely given to them and that they have are to freely receive it by faith as a gift of grace without a single deed or work of their own. This insecurity makes them judge and accuse others of a false gospel. When the light of the gospel shines unto us, we can see that the Lord is good and that his salvation is by grace through faith and not of ourselves. With this kind of hope we purify ourselves from this terrible insecurity that has plagues so many.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Those who have to continually denounce the doctrine of eternal security are insecure about God's trustworthiness in keeping what he has promised through his accomplishments on the cross. They have to make sure that they are doing everything right according to the commandments to secure their salvation. They are not sure about God's grace so they accuse others of antinomianism. They are falling short of trusting God completely for a salvation that depends on God and not them. They can't get over that hump of unbelief that it is freely given to them and that they have are to freely receive it by faith as a gift of grace without a single deed or work of their own. This insecurity makes them judge and accuse others of a false gospel. When the light of the gospel shines unto us, we can see that the Lord is good and that his salvation is by grace through faith and not of ourselves. With this kind of hope we purify ourselves from this terrible insecurity that has plagues so many.

But this hope must be maintained through a living faith. Obviously, not all faith is living. Thus the admonitions and need to prove that our faith is actually alive, and not just some idea in our head.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But this hope must be maintained through a living faith. Obviously, not all faith is living. Thus the admonitions and need to prove that our faith is actually alive, and not just some idea in our head.

No such things as a dead faith. James calls that belief.

Hope maintains a living faith, it is when hope dies, that faith dies. (faith is the substance of hope)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No such things as a dead faith. James calls that belief.

But Christians call belief, faith.

 

[BradC]

But this hope must be maintained through a living faith. Obviously, not all faith is living. Thus the admonitions and need to prove that our faith is actually alive, and not just some idea in our head.

The cross is not some idea in our head but an actual event that took place. We either believe upon the Son who died there or we don't. On our part it is retroactive faith and on the part of the OT saints it was prospective faith based upon a promise. Either one is faith based upon an event that would take place or has taken place. A living faith is one that does not includes works on our part. To mix your own works with faith cancels out faith and leaves you with no hope and without evidence of things not seen. Jesus said blessed are they that believe and have not seen. That applies to us who have believed having not seen him. The mystery of faith is when we believe in him whom we have not seen and in the work of him that rose from the dead. The living part of that faith is that Christ died, was buried and rose from the dead. It is all his actions and we trust those actions and when we do that is a living faith in a living God who ascended into heaven and is alive at the right hand of God. Now we must take up our cross to follow Christ to make an invisible God visible.

 

[NetChaplain]

Eternal security teaches once justified always justified. Meaning your always in right standing with God no matter what you do!

Yeah that sounds good, just one problem...

Technically If your always justified, then your always forgiven of your sin, because anyone who needs forgiveness of sin, is not justified, they are guilty.

When a christian falls into sin, we repent for the forgiveness of sin. right? Of course! why else would we be repenting!

Technically the moment a christian falls into sin, he "becomes" and "remains" guilty until he repents of his sin.
How do I know this? Because he needs to repent in order to be forgiven of the sin he fell into. No repentence = no forgiveness.

Technically if a christian at any moment is not forgiven of a sin, then he is not JUSTIFIED. Which shows once justified always justified and once saved always saved is a lie.
No repentence = no forgiveness = no justification = not saved.

Show me in scripture where repentance is not for the forgiveness of sins and you will COMPLETELY destroy my claim. But you can't because we repent in order to receive forgiveness from God.

REPENTENCE was paid for by the blood of Jesus once and for all time! Now we no longer have to continually sacrifice animals but we can get down on our knees at any moment and start over! However some born again believers grieve the holy spirit and don't repent for whatever reason.

Repentence is for believers, not only sinners!

1:john 1:9 [If] "we" confess "our" sins, he is faithful and just to forgive "us" our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

" we, us, our, us" = hes talking to christians
[ if ] The word if means something is conditional. Here it was saying It's conditional for us to confess/repent , in order to be forgiven ! Which proves my point your not forgiven if you don't repent!

1 peter 4:18 If it is hard for a man who is right with God to be saved, what will happen to the sinner?

Hi MD - Your comment is orderly, but not to seem contending with your comment I would like to comment that this passage concerns the initial confession, repentance and forgiveness one encounters at rebirth, which now involves a continual mindfulness of enmity against sin and sinning, which the Spirit of God maintains within the believer (Gal 5:17) by opposing it (flesh; sinful nature; old man).

If one willfully and intentionally sins, it's clear there has been no rebirth, for repentance can only come from the Spirit of God when He convinces one of sin. Repentance will remain and forgiveness includes all sin from the believer (which is never willful sin - Heb 10:26). Thus, we are forgiven "once for all" sin (Heb 10:10). The 1 John 1:9 passage when related to our continued confessions do not effect forgiveness but rather assures the believer there is and has been forgiveness.

 

[sparkman]

Eternal security teaches once justified always justified. Meaning your always in right standing with God no matter what you do!

Yeah that sounds good, just one problem...

Technically If your always justified, then your always forgiven of your sin, because anyone who needs forgiveness of sin, is not justified, they are guilty.

When a christian falls into sin, we repent for the forgiveness of sin. right? Of course! why else would we be repenting!

Technically the moment a christian falls into sin, he "becomes" and "remains" guilty until he repents of his sin.
How do I know this? Because he needs to repent in order to be forgiven of the sin he fell into. No repentence = no forgiveness.

Technically if a christian at any moment is not forgiven of a sin, then he is not JUSTIFIED. Which shows once justified always justified and once saved always saved is a lie.
No repentence = no forgiveness = no justification = not saved.

Show me in scripture where repentance is not for the forgiveness of sins and you will COMPLETELY destroy my claim. But you can't because we repent in order to receive forgiveness from God.

REPENTENCE was paid for by the blood of Jesus once and for all time! Now we no longer have to continually sacrifice animals but we can get down on our knees at any moment and start over! However some born again believers grieve the holy spirit and don't repent for whatever reason.

Repentence is for believers, not only sinners!

1:john 1:9 [If] "we" confess "our" sins, he is faithful and just to forgive "us" our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

" we, us, our, us" = hes talking to christians
[ if ] The word if means something is conditional. Here it was saying It's conditional for us to confess/repent , in order to be forgiven ! Which proves my point your not forgiven if you don't repent!

1 peter 4:18 If it is hard for a man who is right with God to be saved, what will happen to the sinner?

Associating eternal security with claiming that people can continue in a lifestyle of sin is a straw man. There may be some people who hold the view that Christians can be saved without obedience and good works as a fruit of their salvation, but that certainly is not the perspective of many if not most.

You need to stop lumping people together and claiming that they all believe the same thing. It's called "guilt by association' and is reflective of unsound thinking.

Many who believe in eternal security hold the position of "perseverance of the saints" or, better, "perseverance of the Holy Spirit". Those who are saved do persevere in the faith because of the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

And, largely the reason they hold the position is because they want to give God ALL the glory for their salvation and not make boastful claims that they are continuing and maintaining their salvation through their own works.

If I err in any manner, it is going to be to give God glory and not myself. Period. End of sentence. Exclamation point.

I believe in eternal security, but I also believe in confession of sins, and the necessity of doing that. In addition, the very verses you quite, I John 1:8-9, state that it is GOD who cleanses us. We do not cleanse ourselves. It is God who works in the redeemed to cause sanctification. I could prove this with a lot of verses if necessary.

Phil 2:13-14 12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Notice that Arminians will quote Phil 2:13 and ignore Phil 2:14. They fail to give God the glory in any righteousness that they have. I find this to be sickening and idolatrous.

 

[sparkman]

ASSURANCE OF SALVATION
Some believers commonly struggle with a lack of assurance of salvation. Reasons for this lack of assurance include spiritual immaturity and poor teaching. Some teachers and pastors believe that a Christian can lose their salvation, which is untrue and harmful to the growth of a new believer. Spiritually sensitive individuals, who realize their brokenness, tend to dwell in fear and self-condemnation if they lack assurance. Dwelling in fear and self-condemnation causes a lack of productivity, and hinders the believer’s relationship with God. God doesn’t want us to fear losing our salvation. Fear is the opposite of love, and it does not belong in a loving relationship (I John 4:8). Scripture is emphatic that God has steadfast love for those who are His, and that he will not leave or forsake us (John 6:35-40; Hebrews 13:5). We are not under God’s wrath and condemnation once we are saved (John 5:24; Romans 8:1), and God is totally for us. No force can separate us from his love (Romans 8:31-35).

An important reason for having assurance of salvation is that one cannot really love God in the fullest sense unless he is secure in his salvation. Those who deny eternal security feel like the threat of impending condemnation is still a reality. This handicaps their ability to truly do good works out of love rather than fear of condemnation.

Their view of salvation is like a father holding a pistol to his head and demanding that his son love him. How much love would be reflected if the son does acts to show love in such circumstances?

It is very helpful to understand ten major reasons why we should have assurance in our salvation.

The first point to understand is that we received eternal life at the moment of salvation (John 3:16; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:35-40; John 6:47; John 6:54; John 10:28-29; John 11:25; Romans 6:23; 1 John 5:11, I John 5: 13). Eternal means everlasting;without end. Eternal life is not probationary. It is nonsensical to claim otherwise.

The second point to understand is that salvation is God’s work. It is not our work (Psalm 3:8; Jonah 2:9; Matthew 19:25-26; John 6:39; Acts 28:28; Ephesians 1:11; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 1:28 ; Philippians 2:13). If salvation is God’s work, then the completion of it is based on his competency, not our own. Perseverance is guaranteed because it is based on his competency, not ours (Philippians 1:6; Jude 24). This is why Scripture speaks of our salvation in the past tense (Romans 8:28-30).

The third point is that eternal life and salvation is a free gift from God (Rom 5:15-17; Rom 6:23). Would God give us a free gift, then take it back again? The gifts and calling of God are without revocation (Rom 11:29).

The fourth point to understand is that, when we are saved, God adopted us as children (John 1:12; Romans 8:14-17 ; Galatians 4:4-7; Ephesians 1:5; 1 John 3:1). God chastened his children; he does not cast them away (Hebrews 12:4-11). The goal of chastening is to correct us when we stray.

The fifth point to understand is that our salvation does not depend on our performance. It is about what Christ has done on the cross and our faith in his sacrifice and its sufficiency (Romans 10:13; 1 Peter 2:6). God has already qualified us for his Kingdom through the sacrifice of his Son (Colossians 1:12-14). We are more than conquerors through him (Romans 8:37). Christ is the source of our righteousness, and he has made us sufficient (1 Corinthians 1:30-31; 2 Corinthians 3:4-6). He made us perfect through his sacrifice (Hebrews 10:14). Our works do not add to what Christ did on the cross, and our salvation was earned at the cross (Romans 11:6).

The sixth point to understand is that you received a new nature at conversion that wants to obey God. We are a new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). We are reborn when we are saved (John 3). Would a person with this new nature want to reject God? Those who claim you can lose your salvation are asserting that it is possible to go back to the old nature.

The seventh point to understand is that our assurance is based on Christ’s ministry of prayer and intercession on our behalf (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25; I John 2:1). Note especially Hebrews 7:25 that it is Christ who “saves to the uttermost” those who draw near to God.

Examples of Christ’s prayers for us include the prayers of Christ for Peter in Luke 22:31-34. Christ prayed that Peter’s faith would not fail. Christ also prayed for believers, including us, in John 17:6-26. He specifically mentioned in this prayer asking God to keep us from being lost (John 17: 11-12). Can anyone be a more powerful prayer warrior to have in our corner?

The eighth point to understand is that we enjoy unity with Christ when we were saved (Romans 6:5). We are no longer separate from Him, and that is why Scripture says we are in Christ (John 6:56; Romans 8:1; 2 Corinthians 13:5). We were baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3-4; Galatians 3:27). We were crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20). Christ lives in us (Romans 8:10-20; Galatians 2:20). We are identified with him totally. Scripture says that we died with Christ (Romans 6:8; Colossians 2:20), are buried with Christ (Romans 6:4), were made alive with Christ (Ephesians 2:5), were risen with Christ (Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 3:1) and are hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3). We experience unity with Christ in many ways…we are inseparable from him.

Unity with Christ has importance with regards to security as well. Christ does not deny us because he cannot deny Himself (2 Timothy 2:11-13). Our unity with Christ is a powerful reason why he will not reject us.

The ninth point to understand is that God has covenanted with Christians in regards to eternal life, and that we can rely on God’s covenant love and loyalty, which endures forever. God’s covenant love is hesed in Hebrew. As an example of what God says about his covenant love, see Psalm 136. It repeatedly states that God’s steadfast love, or covenant love, endures forever. Another example of this covenant loyalty is found with ancient Israel. God has not given up on ancient Israel despite their lack of loyalty, as Romans 11 indicates.

This Hebrew word hesed is rendered steadfast love in the ESV. It would be a good exercise to scan through the Old Testament to see how often this word is mentioned in relation to those God has covenanted with. It is mentioned many, many times.

The tenth point to understand relates to God’s attributes. One of the attributes of God is omniscience. God knows everything, including all details about the future (Is. 46:10). How does this relate to assurance of salvation?

If God knows the details of the future, why would he bring someone to salvation, give them eternal life, and work within their life, then reach a point of giving up on them due to some sin? Is God schizophrenic? Why would he bother bringing someone to salvation if he knew the person was going to commit some sin that was going to cause them to reject Him totally and finally? As mentioned previously, he has not given up on ancient Israel, despite their sins (Romans 11).

Those who think a believer can lose their salvation don’t seem to understand God’s attributes. He knows the end from the beginning, and knows every sin the person will commit before they are saved. How would God be able to relate to a person honestly and in love if he knew that they were going to be lost at some point?

Only those who are saved should be assured of their salvation, though. Those who haven’t placed their faith in Christ are under God’s wrath. So, it’s important to know whether you are saved or not. How do you know if you’re saved? Scripture teaches that we should examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith (2 Cor 13:5).

We should examine the fruits of our salvation to see if they are present. Fruits are borne over time, so a new Christian may not be able to recognize these fruits earlier in their Christian walk. So, if you are young in the faith and don’t recognize these fruits earlier in your Christian walk, do not be discouraged. Over time, though, if you don’t observe these fruits in your life, you may have reason to consider whether you were saved. The fact that you are concerned is a good sign. Those who are not saved have little or no concern for their relationship with God.

1 John was written to give believers the assurance of their salvation (1 John 5:13). It gives signs of true believers. The first sign is that they have placed their faith in Jesus Christ, the son of God and his sacrifice for forgiveness of their sins (1 John 4:15; I John 5:1; 1 John 5:5). A second sign is that they do not practice a habitual lifestyle of sin (1 John 3:9; I John 5:2). This does not mean that Christians cease to sin at conversion; it means that they do not continue to practice their sin with no concern for their disobedience. A third sign is that they continue with the Christian faith; they persevere in the faith (Hebrews 3:14; 1 John 2:19). A fourth sign is that they love the brethren (1 John 3:14-16; I John 4:7-12; I John 4:21). A fifth sign is that they have the Holy Spirit, which is an internal witness that we belong to God (1 John 3:24).

Scripture is clear in teaching that believers have eternal security. It is also clear in teaching that those who are saved depart from evil (2 Timothy 2:19). Believers may experience long periods of spiritual fruitlessness, but they will never fall away from the faith completely and finally.

The fact that Christians struggling against a sin is a proof that they are saved. All believers struggle with such issues in their lives. Those who claim otherwise are either deceived or lying. The new believer should just keep on confessing the sin, and asking for cleansing, as I John 1:8-9 teaches.

Regular confession is very important. We never outgrow our need for God’s grace and our need for a Savior. Satan wants us to get frustrated, and to think that our situation is hopeless. There is no believer who wants to get back into close relationship with God who cannot do so.

What about Scriptures that seem to indicate you can lose your salvation? Addressing each individual Scripture would be time consuming. However, here is a few examples that are typical explanations of those Scriptures:

1. Those who leave the faith were never really saved to start with (I John 2:19). Examples of such individuals include Judas Iscariot. He is commonly used as an example of a saved person who left the faith. However, Scripture is clear in teaching that he was never a believer (John 6:64). In fact, Scripture calls him a devil (John 6:70-71).

2. Some Scriptures are talking about losing the ability to share the gospel message, rather than loss of salvation. Examples of this are in Revelation 2:5, where Christ said that the church at Ephesus was subject to having its lampstand removed. This removal was talking about the removal of their opportunity to preach the Gospel message, not loss of salvation.

3. There are warnings in Scripture concerning the need to persevere. These warnings are part of what God uses to keep us in the faith.

 

[mailmandan]

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen! Moral "self-reformation" is no substitute for REGENERATION.

 

[Utah]

Technically the moment a christian falls into sin, he "becomes" and "remains" guilty until he repents of his sin.

IOW the power of sin is greater than the power of Jesus' saving grace. That's funny!