Oh goody another OSAS thread!

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Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
We are to fear slipping into unbelief. Are you a preacher? If so, why do you not know about Romans warning us to not be conceited but fear being removed from the vine because of unbelief?

"20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. "-Romans 11:20-21
And again, this is not speaking of an "INDIVIDUALS" Salvation, but as a WHOLE. It's speaking of the CHURCH as a whole, and there are those that are not SAVED in the church and they, therefore, have not truly believed. So it's using those that were in 'unbelief' were cut off, but YOU.. WE.. a SAVED persons, stands by our FAITH in Christ. Has nothing to do with an individuals salvation. Just as there were the unbelieving Jews, there is also the remnant of those that are saved. Same with the Church.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
And again, no it isn't. Paul is talking to the CHURCH and he's just stating what Christ has done for them, and if they serve the law they won't have grace. He's directing this to EVERYONE in the church in general. Not to the saved.

I'm preaching, and I am up there telling people. We must follow the Lord or we will be damned. We must not go after the law or we will fall from the grace that God has given us. We cannot serve two masters, either we love one and hate the other or visa versa. Am I talking to the SAVED PEOPLE? What's so difficult to see here? I've preached behind the pulpit like this, and I never referred to one saved person. A saved person doesn't fall from grace or go back to the law. SMH!

A saved person doesn't fall from grace or go back to the law.
A saved person can fall from grace and go back to the law this is exactly what happened to some of the Galatians?
And Paul was speaking to saved people.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
For those of you who believe salvation can be forfeited, you always center your argument around human belief presenting only half the truth, since it is being declared righteous by God and declared justified by Him that is where salvation exists not in our human effort to maintain salvation.

The only way you can argue against justification is to adopt the stance that future sins are not forgiven or that eternal life is not granted at the moment of regeneration.

If the Eternal Judge who has final authority to say all sins are forgiven and paid for .......and thereby proclaim the person innocent of all crimes please show me in scripture where the person is found guilty again as in unjustified by the Judge.

Find this is in Pauls writing where he teaches explicity on justification.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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For those of you who believe salvation can be forfeited, you always center your argument around human belief presenting only half the truth, since it is being declared righteous by God and declared justified by Him that is where salvation exists not in our human effort to maintain salvation.

The only way you can argue against justification is to adopt the stance that future sins are not forgiven or that eternal life is not granted at the moment of regeneration.

If the Eternal Judge who has final authority to say all sins are forgiven and paid for .......and thereby proclaim the person innocent of all crimes please show me in scripture where the person is found guilty again as in unjustified by the Judge.

Find this is in Pauls writing where he teaches explicity on justification.
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev_22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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For those of you who believe salvation can be forfeited, you always center your argument around human belief presenting only half the truth, since it is being declared righteous by God and declared justified by Him that is where salvation exists not in our human effort to maintain salvation.

The only way you can argue against justification is to adopt the stance that future sins are not forgiven or that eternal life is not granted at the moment of regeneration.

If the Eternal Judge who has final authority to say all sins are forgiven and paid for .......and thereby proclaim the person innocent of all crimes please show me in scripture where the person is found guilty again as in unjustified by the Judge.

Find this is in Pauls writing where he teaches explicity on justification.
All sin is forgiven in Christ. We abide in Christ through faith, and only an ongoing life-long faith. If a person turns to habitual unbelief, that person no longer abides in Christ. How then can it be argued that that person will be saved?
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Christ never said He would erase a name. Christ will never erase our names from the book of Life, because God already knew who would be saved or not. So our names were written in there before the foundations of the world.

An overcomer is not a person that works really, really hard. It’s not a person that has to strive daily, trying to do nothing but good. It’s not a person that goes to Church every Sunday. It’s not the one that repents 10 times in a day for forgiveness. What is the biblical definition of an overcomer?

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

We don’t overcome by our works, or some 10 point power point presentation display on how to be saved and keep your salvation. We are overcomers because of what Christ did for us on the cross. Christ is just making a simple statement here.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

He is saying that if your name is in the book of life, that He won’t blot it out. It’s pretty simple huh?

See, this letter is talking about a dead church. It’s talking about those that have a name that is alive, but they are dead. How is the only way a person can be dead? To be without Christ. They are dead. So the letter is telling them to get saved. If you get saved, then I won’t blot your name out. If you don’t get saved, I will blot your name out. It’s quite simple when you put it all into context.

Let’s take this even further.

Rev 3:1 And to the messenger of the assembly in Sardis write: These things says he who is having the Seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars: I have known your works, and that you have the name that you do live, and you are dead;

See how Christ says that He knows their works? They have a name that they live, but are dead? Well, when Christ refers to works, then what does He tell His disciples?

Joh 6:28 They said therefore unto him, 'What may we do that we may work the works of God?'

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you may believe in him whom He did send.'

Isn’t it very clear that it’s referring to unsaved people? These people call themselves a Christian, but they have not believed that Christ was the only begotten Son of God. They do not belong to Christ, so they are dead. Christ tells them this. He said, “I know your works (you don’t believe), and you are dead.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Christ never said He would erase a name. Christ will never erase our names from the book of Life, because God already knew who would be saved or not. So our names were written in there before the foundations of the world.

An overcomer is not a person that works really, really hard. It’s not a person that has to strive daily, trying to do nothing but good. It’s not a person that goes to Church every Sunday. It’s not the one that repents 10 times in a day for forgiveness. What is the biblical definition of an overcomer?

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

We don’t overcome by our works, or some 10 point power point presentation display on how to be saved and keep your salvation. We are overcomers because of what Christ did for us on the cross. Christ is just making a simple statement here.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

He is saying that if your name is in the book of life, that He won’t blot it out. It’s pretty simple huh?

See, this letter is talking about a dead church. It’s talking about those that have a name that is alive, but they are dead. How is the only way a person can be dead? To be without Christ. They are dead. So the letter is telling them to get saved. If you get saved, then I won’t blot your name out. If you don’t get saved, I will blot your name out. It’s quite simple when you put it all into context.

Let’s take this even further.

Rev 3:1 And to the messenger of the assembly in Sardis write: These things says he who is having the Seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars: I have known your works, and that you have the name that you do live, and you are dead;

See how Christ says that He knows their works? They have a name that they live, but are dead? Well, when Christ refers to works, then what does He tell His disciples?

Joh 6:28 They said therefore unto him, 'What may we do that we may work the works of God?'

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you may believe in him whom He did send.'

Isn’t it very clear that it’s referring to unsaved people? These people call themselves a Christian, but they have not believed that Christ was the only begotten Son of God. They do not belong to Christ, so they are dead. Christ tells them this. He said, “I know your works (you don’t believe), and you are dead.
Do you fear God?
Rev_22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
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davidclark.hearnow.com
Do you fear God?
Rev_22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Heh... I fear God with a reverential fear, knowing He can take my breath at anytime because of my stupidity in my flesh. I know He can take my house, my car, my food, and anything that I have in my possession, but I am NOT afraid of Him ever taking my salvation through His Son Christ Jesus. Other than that? No I don't! I will stand in His presence one day and fall at His feet. Not because I feared Him taking my salvation, but because He is my Lord and Savior. And I done explained your first verse in chapter 3. Why not read it and then expound your wisdom on what was said? I'll get around to this verse if I feel up to it. But then again, why even reply with sound doctrine and explanation when you don't even care to respond? You didn't respond because you know what I typed was correct an you had nothing more to refute what I typed. That's why you completely ignored my reply to your Revelation chapter 3. Anyway, I might break this one down for you since you also take it out of context. But not for your benefit, because you don't read anything people say, and if you do, you don't reply because you can't reply. Why? Because you can't argue against the truth can ya? Silly boy! If u're going to play, then join in and play. Don't be a lone ranger and just post stuff, while ignoring the replies. If you're getting to responding? YAY, I can't wait. I still love the comments, because it gives me opportunity to share the truth. Love ya man. Keep them coming.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
All sin is forgiven in Christ. We abide in Christ through faith, and only an ongoing life-long faith. If a person turns to habitual unbelief, that person no longer abides in Christ. How then can it be argued that that person will be saved?

I am speaking about justification which is a legal status, God declares us justified, not to be confused with regeneration, sanctification, imputed righteousness or transformation.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
205
43
davidclark.hearnow.com
A saved person can fall from grace and go back to the law this is exactly what happened to some of the Galatians?
And Paul was speaking to saved people.
I have spoken on Galatians, so therefore will direct you to previous posts. IF we can fall from grace, then Jesus' blood wasn't good enough or strong enough. Now if you want to say fallen from grace means losing salvation , then great, I don't believe one can ever lose salvation, whether by sinning it out or throwing it out. What God has given His Son, He will not lose even one soul. Thank you Jesus my Lord and Savior.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Heh... I fear God with a reverential fear, knowing He can take my breath at anytime because of my stupidity in my flesh. I know He can take my house, my car, my food, and anything that I have in my possession, but I am NOT afraid of Him ever taking my salvation through His Son Christ Jesus. Other than that? No I don't! I will stand in His presence one day and fall at His feet. Not because I feared Him taking my salvation, but because He is my Lord and Savior. And I done explained your first verse in chapter 3. Why not read it and then expound your wisdom on what was said? I'll get around to this verse if I feel up to it. But then again, why even reply with sound doctrine and explanation when you don't even care to respond? You didn't respond because you know what I typed was correct an you had nothing more to refute what I typed. That's why you completely ignored my reply to your Revelation chapter 3. Anyway, I might break this one down for you since you also take it out of context. But not for your benefit, because you don't read anything people say, and if you do, you don't reply because you can't reply. Why? Because you can't argue against the truth can ya? Silly boy! If u're going to play, then join in and play. Don't be a lone ranger and just post stuff, while ignoring the replies. If you're getting to responding? YAY, I can't wait. I still love the comments, because it gives me opportunity to share the truth. Love ya man. Keep them coming.
Be very careful
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book. (Rev 22:18 ISV)

If anyone takes away any words from the book of this prophecy, God will take away his portion of the tree of life and the holy city that are described in this book. (Rev 22:19 ISV)
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I am speaking about justification which is a legal status, God declares us justified, not to be confused with regeneration, sanctification, imputed righteousness or transformation.
Legal status can be revoked. Read Ezekiel 33:12-20.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
205
43
davidclark.hearnow.com
Be very careful
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book. (Rev 22:18 ISV)

If anyone takes away any words from the book of this prophecy, God will take away his portion of the tree of life and the holy city that are described in this book. (Rev 22:19 ISV)
I don't have to be careful. Why would I fear God denying what Christ did for me? Why would He look at His Son, who was crucified for MY sin and tell Him.... Sorry son, this guy did so much wrong that I"m going to have to send him to hell... Sorry you went to earth and was beating, mocked, spat on, and crucified for him, but it wasn't enough. I must go back on what I said my Son.. sorry.... This also deals with "throwing it away." Sorry son, your death was in vain.

Do you really think God does this? If you do then you don't serve the God I do. He will NEVER remove me from the book of life and will NEVER deny me. Not because it's me that so awesome, but what Christ did is what is awesome. He won't deny me because He won't deny JESUS, as it's no longer I that live, but CHRIST that lives in me, and my life is HID in Christ. This is a done deal, a covenant that cannot EVER be broken. What do I have to fear?

You also know the word fallen away in some of your alls wonderful out of context scriptures mean to "carry up", or to 'rise up'.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Study some more.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Falling from grace is a doctrinal matter not a salvation issue. The man who had 'fallen from grace' had temporarily given up grace alone and was trusting in other things. He had been deceived as some on this web are deceived. But he was not lost.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
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davidclark.hearnow.com
Falling from grace is a doctrinal matter not a salvation issue. The man who had 'fallen from grace' had temporarily given up grace alone and was trusting in other things. He had been deceived as some on this web are deceived. But he was not lost.
Yeah, one of their biggest verses to try and convince us that believe totally upon what Christ did, that we are wrong. My child can fall from my grace all day long, but he is still my child. FOREVER.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Legal status can be revoked. Read Ezekiel 33:12-20.

In the new covenant please.
Legal status can be revoked. Read Ezekiel 33:12-20.

No where does this passage teach that someone declared innocent ( justified) can now be declared guilty of which they were already declared innocent by God.

This is again not about God's declaration but man's practices and God's judging man's works. All of men's sins were judged at the cross.

Ezekiel 33:19 - "But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and practices justice and righteousness, he will live by them.