Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[OneFaith]

So let's focus on that scripture you posted...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So, it doesn't say 100 times... it says if you sin willfully (Even ONCE).... well.. who doesn't or hasn't? So in your own profession of faith, you are going to hell and you cannot receive anymore sacrifice for your sins.

Do people read the Word? It says if you sin willfully.. then there is no more sacrifice ever again. Tell me it does not say that? So now, who hasn't sinned willfully after receiving Christ? Based on this definition, Heaven will be empty. Let's try and really read the context of scripture. Really, if we sin, then POOF, Jesus never covers our sins again; even if it's ONE SIN... that's what you just said by quoting the scripture out of context. Doesn't matter who you are, it's what it says? Sigh!

Even taking it for what it says IN CONTEXT (indeed if it's talking about a saved person), again, none will go to heaven, b/c we have ALL sinned at least ONE TIME since we accepted Christ. Again... Sigh!

God loves you all! I pray you seek the scriptures and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you into truth. The way this scripture was just quoted is not truth. If it is, then all us sinners are going some place other than heaven

Blessings in the Lord Jesus

EPIALES

I think you are misunderstanding what it means to sin willfully. When we sin we fail the test in that moment of temptation, but we grow in Christ and try not to fail that test again- that is just sinning, but it is not sinning willfully. Sinning willfully means premeditated, without goal or effort to stop. It means to use Christ's blood as a license to sin on purpose. It means the temptation didn't come to you, but you went to it. That you sought out ways to disobey God just for the pleasure of it. It sounds like something a Christian wouldn't do, but it's in the bible because it does happen.

And I'm not saying someone can't repent of this and make things right with God again. A prodigal son can return to the father, but is unsafe until he does- meaning if he dies before returning he will not go to heaven. The one who cannot return is the one who leaves God for another god. For example, I have been a Christian all my life, I have spiritually tasted and known that God is good, I have known and recognised the truth for many years now. But if I were to leave it now and become Muslim for example, I can never come back because I publicly put God and the truth to shame, and to come back would be like crucifying my Lord for a second time on my behalf.

Sad to comprehend, but genuine Christians do leave God and/or disown God. That's why He says if you remain faithful till the end you will be saved.

 

[Epiales]

I think you are misunderstanding what it means to sin willfully. When we sin we fail the test in that moment of temptation, but we grow in Christ and try not to fail that test again- that is just sinning, but it is not sinning willfully. Sinning willfully means premeditated, without goal or effort to stop. It means to use Christ's blood as a license to sin on purpose. It means the temptation didn't come to you, but you went to it. That you sought out ways to disobey God just for the pleasure of it. It sounds like something a Christian wouldn't do, but it's in the bible because it does happen.

And I'm not saying someone can't repent of this and make things right with God again. A prodigal son can return to the father, but is unsafe until he does- meaning if he dies before returning he will not go to heaven. The one who cannot return is the one who leaves God for another god. For example, I have been a Christian all my life, I have spiritually tasted and known that God is good, I have known and recognised the truth for many years now. But if I were to leave it now and become Muslim for example, I can never come back because I publicly put God and the truth to shame, and to come back would be like crusading my Lord for a second time on my behalf.

Sad to comprehend, but genuine Christians do leave God and/or disown God. That's why He says if you remain faithful till the end you will be saved.

I don't misunderstand sinning wilfully.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

People willfully sin all the time because it's their own lusts.

 

[Epiales]

I believe grace correctly understood empowers holiness & following the Lord. Like you said they are not mutually exclusive.

I completely agree! I want to be righteous and show forth works BECAUSE of grace.

 

[OneFaith]

I don't misunderstand sinning wilfully.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

People willfully sin all the time because it's their own lusts.

That is sinning, but sinning willfully is sinning without being enticed. Notice the 'drawn away', to sin willfully means you are not drawn away, you purposely go away seeking to sin in order to receive it's pleasure sensors in your brain.

 

[Epiales]

That is sinning, but sinning willfully is sinning without being enticed. Notice the 'drawn away', to sin willfully means you are not drawn away, you purposely go away seeking to sin in order to receive it's pleasure sensors in your brain.

Naw, when we sin it's because we 'want' to sin. Or because we just don't think it's a bad sin to begin with. Paul makes this clear when he says that he did the things he didn't want to do. That means he KNEW he shouldn't be doing them, but did them anyway = WILLFULLY doing so. Paul wasn't ignorant.

 

[Ralph-]

An ex believer sounds just as strange as my ex father lol. Yeah, that doesn't work

Read the book of Galatians.

It's the story about a believing church that decided to stop believing in Christ and go back to the law.

 

[Epiales]

Read the book of Galatians.

It's the story about a believing church that decided to stop believing in Christ and go back to the law.

Hard to place EVERYONE in Galatian church as believers when I read this in the very beginning:

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Yeah, false teachers were in the church and it was troublesome to those that knew the truth. It caused a lot of division and problems. So yeah, not a very good example of 'stop believing'. These false teachers didn't believe and were trying to sway others to follow their false doctrine. Hmmm Sounds very familiar in our world today. So naw, you can clump the whole church of Galatia as children of God that just stopped believing. Nowhere does it even imply that. Thank you for bringing it up though.

 

[Ralph-]

Hard to place EVERYONE in Galatian church as believers when I read this in the very beginning:

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Yeah, false teachers were in the church and it was troublesome to those that knew the truth. It caused a lot of division and problems. So yeah, not a very good example of 'stop believing'. These false teachers didn't believe and were trying to sway others to follow their false doctrine. Hmmm Sounds very familiar in our world today. So naw, you can clump the whole church of Galatia as children of God that just stopped believing. Nowhere does it even imply that. Thank you for bringing it up though.

"9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?"-Galatians 4:9

He's speaking to believers and is questioning them about why they have gone back to the Mosaic observances.

Your argument has zero support.

 

[Epiales]

"9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?"-Galatians 4:9

He's speaking to believers and is questioning them about why they have gone back to the Mosaic observances.

Your argument has zero support.

No, he's speaking to a CHURCH that has saved and unsaved people in it. He's told them the Gospel and what Christ has done for them. Some are not grounded in the faith. They are being swayed from what Paul had taught them, by these false teachers. This is no different than God knowing the children of Israel, but they didn't believe in Him. They died in their 'unbelief'. They wanted to 'turn back' to Egypt. They never truly served and worshiped God, and this is what was going on in the church, and still going on today. Must read in context, and when you do, you'll see that the word know also means "to be aware of"... They were aware of God and what Paul had taught them. That is why they were so easily swayed, and why it brought division. So in order to have division, you have to have BOTH sides. Those that believe solely upon God apart from the Mosaic law, and those that didn't; they were being swayed to go back to it.

Argument has plenty of support when you read the rest of the Word of God in its entirety.

Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Gal 5:10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

 

[Ralph-]

No, he's speaking to a CHURCH that has saved and unsaved people in it. He's told them the Gospel and what Christ has done for them. Some are not grounded in the faith. They are being swayed from what Paul had taught them, by these false teachers. This is no different than God knowing the children of Israel, but they didn't believe in Him. They died in their 'unbelief'. They wanted to 'turn back' to Egypt. They never truly served and worshiped God, and this is what was going on in the church, and still going on today. Must read in context, and when you do, you'll see that the word know also means "to be aware of"... They were aware of God and what Paul had taught them. That is why they were so easily swayed, and why it brought division. So in order to have division, you have to have BOTH sides. Those that believe solely upon God apart from the Mosaic law, and those that didn't; they were being swayed to go back to it.

Argument has plenty of support when you read the rest of the Word of God in its entirety.

Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Gal 5:10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

I'm going to go with what the text actually says. Paul is talking to believers who have gone back to the law for justification.

 

[Epiales]

I'm going to go with the text actually says. Paul is talking to believers who have gone back to the law for justification.

Yeah, talking to a CHURCH is what I go with. A church houses both believers and unbelievers. Pauls talking to those that have heard the message, and they know the message, but now these false teachers are in there making a good argument, and they are wanting to go back to the law. If they were saved, they then would know the law wouldn't save them, thus why there was division in the church.

Why do most people think that because it says CHURCH or because it says BROTHERS, that it's always referring to saved people. This is a HUGE misunderstanding, for even our current Pastors will stand behind the pulpit and say... "GOOD MORNING SAINTS".... I guess he's implying everyone in the church is a Saint? SMH..

Context, context, context!

 

[Epiales]

Amen, i think the problem is understanding what sin is, they revert to some written code, and think, well i keep that code so i must be ok, not realising the whole time, they have been sinning, and do not even see it, (thus justifying it)while at the same time judging others.

Well.. ANYTHING that is not of faith is sin?

Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

So if you don't have faith in Christ alone, is that sin?

 

[garee]

Well.. ANYTHING that is not of faith is sin?

Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

So if you don't have faith in Christ alone, is that sin?

Yes, if a person does not have the faith of Christ, the faith of God as the work of God as His labor of love working in them that comes from hearing Him it is sin. He then has no way to commune with God as he works in us ….to both will and do His good pleasure .

Faith is measured by His work .It is the work of God that we might beleive Him who has no form.

To each one is given a measure of His faith. not of us lest any man boast in self righteousness.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[garee]

Who did the Israelites worship?

Not all Israel is born again Israel. Few find the way.

 

[OneFaith]

Naw, when we sin it's because we 'want' to sin. Or because we just don't think it's a bad sin to begin with. Paul makes this clear when he says that he did the things he didn't want to do. That means he KNEW he shouldn't be doing them, but did them anyway = WILLFULLY doing so. Paul wasn't ignorant.

Sin is knowing the good you ought to do, and choosing not to do it. I agree, there is a want element, we choose to sin of our own freewill in order to receive the pleasure from it. Sin is wrong, and we know we are doing wrong. But, like Paul said, he wants to do good. This means he wants to want to do good. We all sin, but not everyone wants to not make bad choices. Some people choose to do wrong because they want the pleasure result of sin more than they want to not sin. So they give no effort into trying not to sin because pleasure is their god. They sin willfully, premeditated, without goal or effort to stop, while stating that Christ's blood is their licence to sin as much as they want to.

 

[preston39]

Well.. ANYTHING that is not of faith is sin?

Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

So if you don't have faith in Christ alone, is that sin?

E....,

Yes.

 

[preston39]

Naw, when we sin it's because we 'want' to sin. ....

E......,

I believe that is an unfair conclusion;

When I hit my index finger with a hammer and an immediate four letter stinky word is uttered ...is not a want thing. It is a out of control reaction to ...in this case pain.....not want.

 

[mailmandan]

I think you are misunderstanding what it means to sin willfully. When we sin we fail the test in that moment of temptation, but we grow in Christ and try not to fail that test again- that is just sinning, but it is not sinning willfully. Sinning willfully means premeditated, without goal or effort to stop.

To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. As you pointed out, without goal or effort to stop. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

 

[mailmandan]

I'm going to go with what the text actually says. Paul is talking to believers who have gone back to the law for justification.

Show us in the text where Paul said believers fully came to the place in which they went back to the law for justification and he has no further confidence in them, in the Lord that they will have no other mind and they "lost their salvation."

 

[PS]

To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. As you pointed out, without goal or effort to stop. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

Well said.