Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[Chester]

Again, Christ in us is our hope of glory.He alone is our confidence, if he has begun the good work in us to both will and do His good pleasure, he will finish it . He does not start a project and not finish it .That's us

Who or what are you trusting to finish it? Purgatory.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:Philippians 1:6

LOL! When you can't argue against Scripture that is clearly explained, then pull out the purgatory strawman!

 

[justpassinthrough]

Maybe I misquoted someone LOL... So many talking here. There ARE NO OTHER conditions to believe. I think we're on the same page

Ok.


So if there are no other conditions to be saved, other that to believe, then these in this group were saved for a while, because they did in fact believe, then later, they no longer believed, thus no longer meeting the only condition for us to be saved.


13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe (and are saved) for a while

JPT

 

[Epiales]

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1
JPT

Now this I have to disagree with. Then Christ Himself states that He shall lose NONE that has been given Him... which NONE = 0... not 0 + 1.... Then that would contradict what Christ said, if in fact, a true believer in Christ could depart from the faith. It's impossible as Christ says Himself.

These are self profession Christians, in the church, participating and claiming Christ, but they have not accepted him in their heart. They have a head knowledge of Him, but no heart transplant that God gives us at the new birth. If in fact, even ONE saved person in Christ, could depart from the faith, then Christ would be a liar. Why do you think it states that many will cast our demons and do these miracles, but yet Christ says depart? Because He never "KNEW" them to begin with. They were never HIS.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Now this I have to disagree with. Then Christ Himself states that He shall lose NONE that has been given Him... which NONE = 0... not 0 + 1.... Then that would contradict what Christ said, if in fact, a true believer in Christ could depart from the faith. It's impossible as Christ says Himself.

These are self profession Christians, in the church, participating and claiming Christ, but they have not accepted him in their heart. They have a head knowledge of Him, but no heart transplant that God gives us at the new birth. If in fact, even ONE saved person in Christ, could depart from the faith, the Christ would be a liar. Why do you think it states that many will cast our demons and do these miracles, but yet Christ says depart? Because He never "KNEW" them to begin with. They were never HIS.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1



The question is:


Are you yourself, teaching God’s children that they can indeed depart from the faith, and still be saved?



JPT

 

[garee]

Again, it is those who have confidence, which is the substance of our faith, steadfast to the end, that will receive the salvation of our soul.


Are you saying a person can depart from the faith and still be saved.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1



JPT

No faith... is unbelief.

We can deny Him in unbelief(no faith) He cannot deny his own self as the author and finisher of His own works of faith that he works in us . Remember he who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases performs that which he appoints to us(imputed righteousness) He alone makes our hearts soft.

2 Timothy 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

 

[Epiales]

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1



The question is:


Are you yourself, teaching God’s children that they can indeed depart from the faith, and still be saved?



JPT

That's contradictory man... you cannot depart from the faith. If you can, then Christ is made a liar. He even went on to say:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Not that He would only if we made ourselves so good and perfect and righteous. Or anything else. He says that He WILL do it. A saved person cannot get "unsaved" If this were possible, again, it would make Christ a liar, and two, it would make us more powerful than HIM. Impossible man! I explained it in the previous post.

 

[garee]

Now this I have to disagree with. Then Christ Himself states that He shall lose NONE that has been given Him... which NONE = 0... not 0 + 1.... Then that would contradict what Christ said, if in fact, a true believer in Christ could depart from the faith. It's impossible as Christ says Himself.

Which none? The none that are part of as many as the father has given to the Son. No one can snatch them from the fathers hand (will) He always finishes that which he does begin.

 

[PS]

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1 JPT

That is what it is all about.

Those who depart from the faith are condemned. Obviously at some stage, they did believe, but because they are gone from the Lord they are condemned, and that is where OSAS is wrong.

 

[Epiales]

Now this I have to disagree with. Then Christ Himself states that He shall lose NONE that has been given Him... which NONE = 0... not 0 + 1.... Then that would contradict what Christ said, if in fact, a true believer in Christ could depart from the faith. It's impossible as Christ says Himself.

Which none? The none that are part of as many as the father has given to the Son. No one can snatch them from the fathers hand (will) He always finishes that which he does begin.

maybe you didn't see the equal sign in there? NONE = 0.. meaning He won't lose ANY. Thank you Jesus

 

[garee]

That's contradictory man... you cannot depart from the faith. If you can, then Christ is made a liar. He even went on to say:

He cannot(impossible) deny Himself

The liar has more to do with those who say they have not sinned but continue to fall short of the glory of God all the days of their lives.

The if's tell the story.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.1 John 1

 

[PS]

That's contradictory man... you cannot depart from the faith. If you can, then Christ is made a liar. He even went on to say:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The verse you quote is about those who remain faithful.

The unfaithful, like the Israelites who worshipped idols did depart from Yahweh.

 

[Epiales]

That is what it is all about.

Those who depart from the faith are condemned. Obviously at some stage, they did believe, but because they are gone from the Lord they are condemned, and that is where OSAS is wrong.

You can easily believe the truths of the Gospel but not accept them in your heart. Like I believe there's a sale down the road that's giving away 100 bucks, but I don't accept it. I know that's a strange analogy to put here, but it's the same concept. The fact is, I can say, well, I believe it, but I don't have time for it. I don't wanna do it what it takes to go and get that 100 bucks. These will depart from the faith. They will depart from the truths that they know to be true, but just did nothing with them. They did not want to do anything with those truths. Our churches are full of this type of person. They have a head knowledge, not a heart knowledge; no heart transplant at the new birth. They knew in their mind what was TRUE, but they rejected it; thus never getting it in their hearts.

 

[Epiales]

That's contradictory man... you cannot depart from the faith. If you can, then Christ is made a liar. He even went on to say:

He cannot(impossible) deny Himself

The liar has more to do with those who say they have not sinned but continue to fall short of the glory of God all the days of their lives.

The if's tell the story.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.1 John 1

I agree. I you say that you can't sin or don't sin anymore? That's what the bible calls a liar.

 

[Epiales]

The verse you quote is about those who remain faithful.

The unfaithful, like the Israelites who worshipped idols did depart from Yahweh.

No, even the children of Israel that saw the miracles of God never BELIEVED. Only TWO believed and they made it to the promised land. If they believed, then they would of ALL went with Joshua and Caleb. The fact remains, is that they never truly believed in this God; they wanted their own, and they got what they wanted.

 

[PS]

You can easily believe the truths of the Gospel but not accept them in your heart. Like I believe there's a sale down the road that's giving about 100 bucks, but I don't accept it. I know that's a strange analogy to put here, but it's the same concept. The fact is, I can say, well, I believe it, but I don't have time for it. I don't wanna do it what it takes to go and get that 100 bucks. These will depart from the faith. They will depart from the truths that they know to be true, but just did nothing with them. They did not want to do anything with those truths. Our churches are full of this type of person. They have a head knowledge, not a heart knowledge; no heart transplant at the new birth.

If you believe someone is giving away 100 bucks and you accept it, you are a 100 bucks richer. But if you squander it on gambling you will never get it back, and neither will you get your salvation back.

 

[Epiales]

If you believe someone is giving away 100 bucks and you accept it, you are a 100 bucks richer. But if you squander it on gambling you will never get it back, and neither will you get your salvation back.

That's if you went and received the 100 dollars... these people never DID.... Keyword... DID NOT ACCEPT THE 100 BUCKS... They never received salvation. So therefore, they could not throw something away or gamble it away. Simple! Got to have it in order to do something with it.

 

[garee]

That is what it is all about.

Those who depart from the faith are condemned. Obviously at some stage, they did believe, but because they are gone from the Lord they are condemned, and that is where OSAS is wrong.

Obviously, it is impossible for those who were once enlightened (not saved), and have tasted of the heavenly gift(not saved), and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come(not saved), If they fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Obviously to the other group... better things accompany salvation, like real redemdemtion of one soul.(Saved) And not a kick start placing one in the garden of Eden before man violated one commandment, as in good luck .

 

[PS]

No, even the children of Israel that saw the miracles of God never BELIEVED. Only TWO believed and they made it to the promised land. If they believed, then they would of ALL went with Joshua and Caleb. The fact remains, is that they never truly believed in this God; they wanted their own, and they got what they wanted.

They all followed Yahweh. You cannot follow something you do not believe in.

 

[Epiales]

They all followed Yahweh. You cannot follow something you do not believe in.

Yes you can. People do it ALL the time. I know people in Catholic Churches that go through ALL the rituals and stuff, but yet tell ya that they do it because they're a member, but they know it isn't the way to do it. Many people follow things they do not believe in.

 

[PS]

That's if you went and received the 100 dollars... these people never DID.... Keyword... DID NOT ACCEPT THE 100 BUCKS... They never received salvation. So therefore, they could not throw something away or gamble it away. Simple! Got to have it in order to do something with it.

We are talking about loosing your salvation, and for them to loose their salvation they must have believed in the first place, otherwise would not have had anything to lose.