Not By Works

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homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#153,781
Oct 24, 2012
16,736
555
113
#153,781
BillG said:
Sorry but I cannot see how this applies to the question I asked.
Am I missing something
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Okay maybe this might clear it up.? We are forgiven, reconciled by God on that cross once for us all to receive in belief and be made new in God's Spirit and Truth. one will stop sin, once see it is done by Son for them, why? because one will be too busy praising God and will not have time to continue in sin, being too busy praising and thanking God
Sin takes occasion by the command not to sin Romans 7
Sin takes occasion by the commend not to sin
Sorry you do not see this yet, yet in God you will and then will consciously choose and either do or not do accordingly
I hope from you sincerity, thank you
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#153,782
Oct 24, 2012
16,736
555
113
#153,782
BillG said:
This looks like you are making this personal about me?
If that's the case then you don't know me.
Just read some of my posts this evening.

You cannot seem to grasp the question I asked concerning Hebrews which I asked @SavedByBlood yet you answered to me (that's not an issue that you did) yet you seem infer that maybe I don't.

Your response to me maybe should have been directed to @SavedByBlood whom I believe is saved.
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Nothing was meant against you or anyone else, I apparently do not see as you do nor do you see as I see.
Okay, time for me to let it go, if you do not want that, maybe try a different way to ask that ? I Am not getting
I only care to share and not abuse or accuse anyone, that is not my call in the body, hope this might help?
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#153,783
Feb 15, 2017
9,037
4,456
113
#153,783
homwardbound said:
Okay maybe this might clear it up.? We are forgiven, reconciled by God on that cross once for us all to receive in belief and be made new in God's Spirit and Truth. one will stop sin, once see it is done by Son for them, why? because one will be too busy praising God and will not have time to continue in sin, being too busy praising and thanking God
Sin takes occasion by the command not to sin Romans 7
Sin takes occasion by the commend not to sin
Sorry you do not see this yet, yet in God you will and then will consciously choose and either do or not do accordingly
I hope from you sincerity, thank you
Click to expand...
Sorry but you assume things about me "Sorry you do not see this yet"

You are judging me here.

So let me put you right.

I believe Jesus is the son of God who died and rose again for the forgiveness of my sin.
I have confessed this been baptised.
I ask the Holy Spirit every day to help me to be like Jesus, to reveal my weakness and ask for help.

So please do not tell me I don't get it because I do.
Rather than accuse maybe ask.

Bill
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#153,784
Feb 15, 2017
9,037
4,456
113
#153,784
homwardbound said:
Nothing was meant against you or anyone else, I apparently do not see as you do nor do you see as I see.
Okay, time for me to let it go, if you do not want that, maybe try a different way to ask that ? I Am not getting
I only care to share and not abuse or accuse anyone, that is not my call in the body, hope this might help?
Click to expand...
It does,

I have clarified my take in the above post.

We are in Christ and that is all that matters.
Let's endeavour to build up.

God bless you.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#153,785
Oct 24, 2012
16,736
555
113
#153,785
BillG said:
Please make it simple for me
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Simply, God does sincerely love us all, to choose to believe God or not consciously. That is why son took all the pain and sin once for everyone Hebrews 10, since no other flesh ever could, he did it for us all to choose to believe God or not
Choose God as I see you have, and receive from God , which you have. yet even as myself, I have gotten lost on that path God by Son put me on and you too. as that happens to the first born flesh and blood. All by Son the only perfect one for anyone to be saved in nd not of self ever at all. At least for me
Love form God by Son to us all to either believe God personally or not
Believe, receive and see eventually as long as one will not quit, no matter what troubles come against them
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#153,786
Oct 24, 2012
16,736
555
113
#153,786
BillG said:
Sorry but you assume things about me "Sorry you do not see this yet"

You are judging me here.

So let me put you right.

I believe Jesus is the son of God who died and rose again for the forgiveness of my sin.
I have confessed this been baptised.
I ask the Holy Spirit every day to help me to be like Jesus, to reveal my weakness and ask for help.

So please do not tell me I don't get it because I do.
Rather than accuse maybe ask.

Bill
Click to expand...
As you wish. already said I am not judging you, thank you for your belief to the risen Son Jesus where God seals you in God for you by Son to you.
I believe Jesus on that cross took away all sin but one. That one that is not a sin until one consciously chooses to believe or not believe Jesus the Son is risen for them too. If choose belief to stick to that no matter what troubles come, one will see God is truth for them too
seeing what Jesus did, after he asked Father can there be any other way? And then said nevertheless your will Father not mine be done
And now it is done as Jesus went willingly all the way for us the people as you already know too, thank you
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#153,787
Feb 15, 2017
9,037
4,456
113
#153,787
homwardbound said:
As you wish. already said I am not judging you, thank you for your belief to the risen Son Jesus where God seals you in God for you by Son to you.
I believe Jesus on that cross took away all sin but one. That one that is not a sin until one consciously chooses to believe or not believe Jesus the Son is risen for them too. If choose belief to stick to that no matter what troubles come, one will see God is truth for them too
seeing what Jesus did, after he asked Father can there be any other way? And then said nevertheless your will Father not mine be done
And now it is done as Jesus went willingly all the way for us the people as you already know too, thank you
Click to expand...
God bless you brother.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#153,788
Oct 24, 2012
16,736
555
113
#153,788
BillG said:
It does,

I have clarified my take in the above post.

We are in Christ and that is all that matters.
Let's endeavour to build up.

God bless you.
Click to expand...
Agreed, ready, share thank you, I do not know all, even as Paul says about this in Phil 3:12-15 I am not perfect, yet God is and we both agree on that, thank you for caring as well.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#153,789
Feb 15, 2017
9,037
4,456
113
#153,789
homwardbound said:
As you wish. already said I am not judging you, thank you for your belief to the risen Son Jesus where God seals you in God for you by Son to you.
I believe Jesus on that cross took away all sin but one. That one that is not a sin until one consciously chooses to believe or not believe Jesus the Son is risen for them too. If choose belief to stick to that no matter what troubles come, one will see God is truth for them too
seeing what Jesus did, after he asked Father can there be any other way? And then said nevertheless your will Father not mine be done
And now it is done as Jesus went willingly all the way for us the people as you already know too, thank you
Click to expand...
Isn't in great to be in the family of God.
Adopted by him.
I implore on here to build each other up.
Jesus said that they know we are his desiples if we love one another.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#153,791
Jul 3, 2015
61,159
30,309
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#153,791
Hakawaka said:
If I may, how do you explain the warning passages about apostasy, departing from the living God, name wiped from the book of life in Revelation 3:5 and other verses like that?

Also, im still interested by what you said about molinism. If I make a thread about it, will you contribute and answer my questions about it? There is informatioun found on google but I have questions regarding particular verses. I read they believe in both free will of the creature and also God predestinating, but the way God does it is thru middle knowledge, He knows what choices a person will make and knows counterfactuals, I find that interesting and who knows maybe its the right way to marry the two, free will and predestination. Are you a molinist? Would you contribute to my thread if I made one? @Magenta
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I do not identify as a Molinist or Arminian or Calvinist. I am simply Bible believing.

So I can't say I could answer questions on Molinism. I do mention it because it is sometimes said if you
are not one such Calvinist or Arminian, you are the other, as if there were no third or even fourth option.

As to the question of falling away, I can certainly say I don't believe
I ever will, and that 1 John 2:19 adequately addresses the issue.


1 John 2:19
:)
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#153,792
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#153,792
Hakawaka said:
Those who wont overcome will be blotted out. If they are blotted out can they be brought back in? Hebrews seems to indicate no, Prodical son parable and the old testament examples of Israel going to baal worship and still called back seem to indicate yes.
Click to expand...
  1. 1 John 5:4
    For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith
 
Hakawaka

Hakawaka

Active member
#153,794
Jul 1, 2021
338
176
43
#153,794
BillG said:
It doesn't say it, I would have thought it would say their names would be blotted out.

When were the names put in the book of life?
Based on what you think all are in then some are tipexed out?
Was not Hebrews addressed to Isreal?
If so then they cannot be called back except for the ramnente.
Click to expand...
Tell me what Revelation 3:5 means then.
 
Hakawaka

Hakawaka

Active member
#153,795
Jul 1, 2021
338
176
43
#153,795
Everlasting-Grace said:
  1. 1 John 5:4
    For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith
Click to expand...
No argument there, I agree. But clearly some are in the book of life, then don't overcome and are wiped out. This requires an explanation if you guys don't want to believe a man can be in the faith, then apostate and lose their inheritence. Which I got no personal beef with the doctrine of preservation of the saints, im all for it, I just can't get around the hundreds of warning passages, every single book in the New Testament has atleast one.
 
Hakawaka

Hakawaka

Active member
#153,796
Jul 1, 2021
338
176
43
#153,796
Magenta said:
I do not identify as a Molinist or Arminian or Calvinist. I am simply Bible believing.

So I can't say I could answer questions on Molinism. I do mention it because it is sometimes said if you
are not one such Calvinist or Arminian, you are the other, as if there were no third or even fourth option.

As to the question of falling away, I can certainly say I don't believe
I ever will, and that 1 John 2:19 adequately addresses the issue.

1 John 2:19
:)
Click to expand...
I certainly agree there are many who went out and were never truly of us. But why the warnings of departing from the living God? Be careful so you dont do it! Why bother being careful if its not possible? You guys see where im going with this? Can someone explain this, have you not wrestled with these texts at all? I just cant see someone reading these and coming to the conclusion of "NOPE, doesnt apply to me!" Then why are they written to "brothers" and "saints" and those who are "chosen" and " called"?

I will look into molinism more, I noticed Dr William Lane Craig believes in it. Hes a very intelligent man. So this system aint made for no dummies thats for sure. I will see if I can wrap my head around it.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#153,797
Jul 3, 2015
61,159
30,309
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#153,797
Hakawaka said:
I certainly agree there are many who went out and were never truly of us. But why the warnings of departing from the living God? Be careful so you dont do it! Why bother being careful if its not possible? You guys see where im going with this? Can someone explain this, have you not wrestled with these texts at all? I just cant see someone reading these and coming to the conclusion of "NOPE, doesnt apply to me!" Then why are they written to "brothers" and "saints" and those who are "chosen" and " called"?

I will look into molinism more, I noticed Dr William Lane Craig believes in it. Hes a very intelligent man. So this system aint made for no dummies thats for sure. I will see if I can wrap my head around it.
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Yes, I think it likely that most have wrestled at one time or another with doubts concerning their salvation, and we are told to work it out with fear and trembling. Do you not wonder at how many are truly saved? Or why some believe as they do? How many do we know that are really just cultural Christians as they are sometimes called, and can such as one of those be a true believer and actually saved, or are all those passages really about them because it is most likely they will fall away well before someone who intimately knows the living Lord? Giving mental assent is not really enough, and it could be said that some cultural Christians do not even do that, let alone believe in their heart. Any who, yes, I have heard of WLC... and good luck with your explorations of Molinism. :)
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#153,798
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
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#153,798
Hakawaka said:
No argument there, I agree. But clearly some are in the book of life, then don't overcome and are wiped out. This requires an explanation if you guys don't want to believe a man can be in the faith, then apostate and lose their inheritence. Which I got no personal beef with the doctrine of preservation of the saints, im all for it, I just can't get around the hundreds of warning passages, every single book in the New Testament has atleast one.
Click to expand...
Jesus died for everyone. His signature is in the book of live. And everyone’s name is written in it.

those who reject his salvation are erased from the book of life.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#153,799
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#153,799
Hakawaka said:
I certainly agree there are many who went out and were never truly of us. But why the warnings of departing from the living God? Be careful so you dont do it! Why bother being careful if its not possible? You guys see where im going with this? Can someone explain this, have you not wrestled with these texts at all? I just cant see someone reading these and coming to the conclusion of "NOPE, doesnt apply to me!" Then why are they written to "brothers" and "saints" and those who are "chosen" and " called"?

I will look into molinism more, I noticed Dr William Lane Craig believes in it. Hes a very intelligent man. So this system aint made for no dummies thats for sure. I will see if I can wrap my head around it.
Click to expand...
They were never of us.
It’s not even a warning to them, it is a consolation given to us. Don;t be sad, they were never of us, for if they were of us, they would never have left. But they left to expose the fact they were never of us (they were impostors)
 
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