Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
And, believing what Moses said.
Jeremiah said.
Isaiah said....
John said.
Matthew said...
Paul said...
Peter said..
What the Word of God says!
Faith which is not limited to only words spoken by Jesus.
Jesus said so!
grace and peace ............
Jeremiah said.
Isaiah said....
John said.
Matthew said...
Paul said...
Peter said..
What the Word of God says!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1
And, man shall live by faith! John 1:1
Faith which is not limited to only words spoken by Jesus.
Jesus said so!
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Matthew 4:4
but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Matthew 4:4
grace and peace ............
The different types of works I was referring to were not good/wise, true/false, kind/unkind, etc. They are the ones actually talked about in the Bible—Boastful works Eph. 2:9 the works of the old law Galatians 3:10; good works Eph 2:10; works of the flesh Galations 5:19; and WORKS OF GOD John 6:28-29.
Specifically, the WORKS OF GOD in John 6:29 is very enlightening because Jesus calls “FAITH” a WORK!! I’m just wondering if all the people who want to claim that works don’t have anything to do with salvation will go so far as to throw away the work of faith, also? Jesus Himself called it a “work”. Are you going to argue with Jesus? Will you contradict Him? Or maybe “disagree” with Jesus? I would think that since “salvation” comes from Jesus, He has the right to define what “faith” is. And He says it is a WORK. And of course it is— because it is something YOU.must DO! God does not just “zap” you with faith. You have to believe. You have to do something. So Jesus is right; Faith is a work that you must do. Not only that, you can choose whether you want to do it or not. There were lots of people in the New Testament who chose NOT to believe. So, if “works” do not have anything to do with salvation, then “faith” does not have anything to do with salvation.
Since Jesus has defined “faith” as a work, that means repentance and confession must be WORKS of God also. He says faith is a WORK OF GOD, and we know that it is something we must DO, and repentance and confession are things we must DO ALSO. The command to believe, repent, and confess all come from God—not men. That means they originate from God—not men. That means they cannot be works we can “BOAST” of. Luke 17 says when we have done ALL God has told us to do, we have only done our DUTY. So faith, repentance and confession are NOT “boastful” works talked about in Eph. 2. But they are definitely “works” that are essential to salvation. The statement that “works don’t have anything to do with salvation” can’t be true or else Jesus was wrong when He said that faith was a work.
What about Baptism?? People object to baptism because it is a “work”. Yes, baptism is something you must DO, just like faith, repentance, confession. Baptism originated with God—not man. See Matt. 28:18-19. Just like faith, repentance, and confession. It was commanded by Jesus in the “great commission” in Matthew 28 and Mark 16, Just like faith, repentance, and confession. Baptism is a “WORK OF GOD” just like faith, repentance, and confession.
In the Bible, when people were told what to do to be saved, sometimes repentance might not be specifically mentioned as in Mark 16:16 where Jesus said to believe and be baptized to be saved. ( that doesn’t mean it’s not necessary) And sometimes confession might be left out as in the conversion of the jailer in Acts 16 (that doesn’t mean it’s not necessary), and sometimes even FAITH is left out; Acts2:38 Repent and be baptized…( that doesn’t mean that faith is unnecessary) but baptism is NEVER, NEVER left out of the story.
Acts 2- repent and be BAPTIZED
Acts 8- the Samaritans believed and were
BAPTIZED
Acts 9- Saul of Tarsus, Arise and be BAPTIZED.
Acts 10- Peter Commanded them to be
BAPTIZED.
Acts 16- Lydia, BAPTIZED
Acts 16- the jailer, BAPTIZED the same hour of
The night.
That sounds like to me that baptism was important. And I only single baptism out because it is the one thing that men say is not necessary.
Faith, Repentance, Confession and yes, Baptism—THEY ARE ALL WORKS OF GOD.
Everything you have is a gift from God.
Your intelligence, your family, your possessions.
And also.your faith.
You can have incredible intelligence, yet squander it with drugs or alcohol.
Or you could use the intelligence GOD GAVE YOU, to do great things.
Without the Lord GIFTING you the faith, you could never “work it out” believing in Christ.
So even though we do the “work “ of believing, Ultimately that is God’s Work too, since he is the One that gave us the faith to begin with
ANY other “work” you claim that either attains or maintains Salvation is an offensive to God.
Your intelligence, your family, your possessions.
And also.your faith.
You can have incredible intelligence, yet squander it with drugs or alcohol.
Or you could use the intelligence GOD GAVE YOU, to do great things.
Without the Lord GIFTING you the faith, you could never “work it out” believing in Christ.
So even though we do the “work “ of believing, Ultimately that is God’s Work too, since he is the One that gave us the faith to begin with
ANY other “work” you claim that either attains or maintains Salvation is an offensive to God.
-
1
- Show all
Matthew 16:26-28
26 For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul? 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works. 28 Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
26 For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul? 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works. 28 Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Yes, it is called a “work of God” in John 6:28-29. Just like repentance, confession, and baptism. They are all things we “do” and they are all works of God because they came from Him and they are commanded by Him. You just want to eliminate them because it doesn’t fit your doctrine of “faith only.” Even though God has said “NOT by faith only.” No doctrine, if it is false, is worth maintaining if it costs you your soul’s salvation. Eternity is a long time to be wrong, so we better get this right. It seems to me you are ignoring James 2:24. It plainly destroys your doctrine of “salvation by faith alone,” yet, you continue to believe it.
Since God has plainly said in His word that salvation is not by “faith alone”, what would God have to do to make you believe that salvation is NOT by “faith only”? I can’t think of any other way for God to tell you. You refuse to believe Him.
God does not “zap” us with faith. God may have “created”a thing called faith but he does not force us to believe. THAT, we must do on our own. This is proven by many people who do NOT BELIEVE. We have a choice. God does not gift” it to some but does not “gift” to others. God puts it out there —you choose to believe or not believe.
Yes, all gifts are from God, but we are not talking about general things, we are talking about “salvation.” It is so important that we believe God and His word and not take the word of men OVER the word of God. I hope you will seriously consider what God has said.
Since God has plainly said in His word that salvation is not by “faith alone”, what would God have to do to make you believe that salvation is NOT by “faith only”? I can’t think of any other way for God to tell you. You refuse to believe Him.
God does not “zap” us with faith. God may have “created”a thing called faith but he does not force us to believe. THAT, we must do on our own. This is proven by many people who do NOT BELIEVE. We have a choice. God does not gift” it to some but does not “gift” to others. God puts it out there —you choose to believe or not believe.
Yes, all gifts are from God, but we are not talking about general things, we are talking about “salvation.” It is so important that we believe God and His word and not take the word of men OVER the word of God. I hope you will seriously consider what God has said.
I don’t know what your point is with these verses, but the people in Matthew 7:21-22 are BELIEVERS who havre been very busy religiously. They have prophesied ( they say), they have done miracles, (they say), and according to them, they have done many WONDERS. We do not actually know if these things are true. But it is what they are claiming. Jesus does not condemn them for lying. It is evident that these people have “faith.” They “believe”. In Jesus. They have done all of these things in His name; but they are LOST! How can That be? If “faith alone “ saves you, why aren’t these people saved??
Another question to ask is, if these people were saved to the point they could do miracles and prophesy, yet they are lost—wouldn’t that disprove “once saved, always saved” doctrine?
This is a great example to disprove two false doctrines:
(1) the doctrine of salvation by “faith alone” will not save you. ( this should be no surprise because That is exactly what God said in James 2:24.)
(2) the doctrine of “once saved, always saved is false, because these saved believers were lost according to Jesus’s own words.
So WHY were these people not saved??? Jesus tells us in verse 23. They practiced LAWLESSNESS. That word means “without Law. They were believing and practicing things without God’s authority; things that were NOT in GOD’S LAW. Did you know that will cause you to lose your soul?
Jesus said ALL AUTHORITY has been given to Him. MATTHEW28:18. We must make sure that what we believe and practice is in His word and by His authority. If not, we will be among those people in Matthew 7.
Yep.
Not gonna rely on a single work I'VE done to "help" God save me.
Not ganna be a single thing I'm going to boast over. Because I've been saved by Grace THROUGH Faith, and THAT not of myself.
So boast away!
Do you have Ephesians in your Bible?
Ephesians 2:8-9 New King James Version 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
I agree. So PLEASE stop insulting God with your works to help Him save you.
Not gonna rely on a single work I'VE done to "help" God save me.
Not ganna be a single thing I'm going to boast over. Because I've been saved by Grace THROUGH Faith, and THAT not of myself.
So boast away!
Do you have Ephesians in your Bible?
Ephesians 2:8-9 New King James Version 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
I agree. So PLEASE stop insulting God with your works to help Him save you.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
How much 'do' must a person 'do' before they are 'done' earning their salvation?
Romans 5:18-19 NKJV
Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. [19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
John 5:24 NKJV
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Romans 5:18-19 NKJV
Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. [19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
John 5:24 NKJV
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
-
2
- Show all