Not By Works

[CherieR]

Why do you turn grace into disgrace with the false OSAS doctrine?
Why are God's commandments so grievous to the OSAS crowd when the Bible says they are not?
Why do you choose high sounding spiritual platitudes instead of sound Biblical reasoning?

You claim "rest in Jesus" allows you to disregard His commandment to rest on the Sabbath day, but according to that logic, when Jesus becomes our truth we can lie, or when Jesus becomes our eternal reward we can rob banks. Surely, even one who is gullible enough to believe OSAS isn't too dense to see that we're not at liberty to lie or steal, so why insist we can break the Sabbath?

"Blessed are they which DO HIS COMMANDMENTS that they may have right to the Tree of Life and may enter into the gates to the city". - Revelation 22:14 KJV

Paul stated let no man judge you in regard to a Sabbath day .

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
"
https://biblehub.com/colossians/2-1..., or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[Phoneman-777]

What do you consider works in this? How do you distinguish works that are of faith or works from people who don't have faith in Christ?

James points to keeping the Ten Commandments as works of faith when he says if we don't commit adultery, yet kill, we "art become a transgressor of the law" and then charges us to speak and act in a manner which is the antithesis to such transgression.

Of course, Jesus came to "magnify the law, and make it honorable" according to the "Gospel Prophet" Isaiah. Therefore, choosing to not look with lust, not hate without a cause, etc., are among "works of faith". It's easy to click on past a porn advertisement when we remember that Jesus expects us to look upon sinners with pity instead of objects of fleshly indulgence. It's also easy to slough off the personal insults and character accusations of the OSAS crowd because, in my opinion, they who do it don't know the first thing about living faith.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Paul stated let no man judge you in regard to a Sabbath day .

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
"
https://biblehub.com/colossians/2-16.htm#:~:text=Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Paul was talking about the yearly feast day sabbaths which "were a shadow of things to come" and were among the Mosaic Law "which was against us" (Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV). Passover was a shadow of Jesus' sacrifice, Unleavened Bread of His uncorrupted body in the tomb, etc.

The Ten Commandments, in which is contained the weekly Sabbath, has nothing to do with Colossians 2 because the Ten Commandments aka Moral Law aka Law of God is a law that ain't against anyone - it is FOR us and contains blessings and promises unlike the Mosaic Law which contains penalties and curses for those who violate it

 

[CherieR]

Paul was talking about the yearly feast day sabbaths which "were a shadow of things to come" and were among the Mosaic Law "which was against us" (Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV). Passover was a shadow of Jesus' sacrifice, Unleavened Bread of His uncorrupted body in the tomb, etc.

The Ten Commandments, in which is contained the weekly Sabbath, has nothing to do with Colossians 2 because the Ten Commandments aka Moral Law aka Law of God is a law that ain't against anyone - it is FOR us and contains blessings and promises unlike the Mosaic Law which contains penalties and curses for those who violate it

I believe in a day of rest though not necessarily Saturday. Especially for people in jobs like police officers, emergency personnel ( dispatchers and medical) and doctors, there is need for people to be working everyday.

 

[TMS]

“Without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). There are many in the Christian world who claim that all that is necessary to salvation is to have faith; works are nothing, faith is the only essential. But God’s Word tells us that faith without works is dead, being alone. Many refuse to obey God’s commandments, yet they make a great deal of faith. But faith must have a foundation.

Jas 2:15-20
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[CherieR]

@Phoneman-777 , I am wondering how you approach tithes and offerings. From what I have heard tithes were to be given to the Levites and it was more than 10 percent altogether.

 

[CherieR]

“Without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). There are many in the Christian world who claim that all that is necessary to salvation is to have faith; works are nothing, faith is the only essential. But God’s Word tells us that faith without works is dead, being alone. Many refuse to obey God’s commandments, yet they make a great deal of faith. But faith must have a foundation.

Jas 2:15-20
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

How do you see faith with works? Do you view this as following Jesus example of love and doing good to others and following his teaching in general?

 

[wattie]

“Without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). There are many in the Christian world who claim that all that is necessary to salvation is to have faith; works are nothing, faith is the only essential. But God’s Word tells us that faith without works is dead, being alone. Many refuse to obey God’s commandments, yet they make a great deal of faith. But faith must have a foundation.

Jas 2:15-20
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Okay, so the examples James gives in chapter 2.. with Abraham, Rahab..etc..

Do you believe they were actually eternally saved by their acts of service? Or is this a response to God out of love for what he had already given?

 

[TMS]

Mat 3:8-10 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for...... 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Don't say this doesn't apply to today...

We must have a solid foundation for our faith; it must be founded on the Word of God, and its results will be seen in obedience to God’s expressed will.

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Faith and works will keep us evenly balanced and make us successful in the work of sanctification. Jesus says, “Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter in the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21). Speaking of temporal food, the apostle said, “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat” (2 Thessalonians 3:10). The same rule applies to our spiritual nourishment; if any would have the bread of eternal life, let him make efforts to obtain it.

Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.....
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God....
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Good works are important.

 

[TMS]

How do you see faith with works? Do you view this as following Jesus example of love and doing good to others and following his teaching in general?

Yes
Knowing Jesus and surrendering yourself to Him = a born again experience.
Knowing Jesus and His will is found in the Holy word.
Obeying the teachings is a result of our love for Him.

We don't work our way to heaven, Jesus is our righteousness. We follow and allow Jesus to work in us by faith.

 

[Magenta]

2 Peter 3:17b plus Titus 1:10-11
Dedicated to the NBW thread

 

[oyster67]

Just more confirmation that when you proclaim the faithfulness of God and a salvation by His grace, not of yourself but by His mercy, you are immediately accused of excusing sin and doing nothing good.

It is possible to believe that we are saved by faith alone and still disagree with OSAS. Apostacy happens when a Christian casts away his faith. Everything is based on continued faith, which is the source and prerequisite to good works.

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hebrews
10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[oyster67]

Have faith in God. ​

(Mark 11:22) ​

Yes. And I believe this must be a continued faith, not just a one-time thing.

John
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[oyster67]

do you keep the commandment, "have faith in God" ?

Yes, this is the continual requirement.

 

[oyster67]

fall from your own steadfastness.

Yes, it can happen.

 

[oyster67]

Brutal honesty..

A very significant amount of users here would be high internet users. Therefore there is also a high chance, even though the majority would be believers.. that they get caught up in looking at adult content sites.

Now.. for those who believe salvation can be lossed...

This IS habitual sin. You yourself may even be caught in it. I can just about guarantee when people here fall into this.. it isn't just 10 minutes of looking.. but probably hours.

An entire church, community or even generation of christians can be characterised by particular kinds of sin. David had a problem with adultery. Peter had a problem with pride. Solomon had many wives, which God tolerated but did not condone.

Now Jesus, is hurt by this when we get caught in it.. and does discipline us.. does prompt us back, does command us to flee. But actually leave us and condemn us to hell? That isn't relationship.. that's a works based contract.

There is a difference between when Jesus saves someone eternally and then THE faith. The walk of faith after salvation. Eternal salvation MAY be accompanied by works.. but there was no mixture of works in getting it.. so there is no guarantee.

(I think I have posted this same thing too many times... oh well.. )

There is a difference between committing a sinful act and walking away from God.

Does one have a repentant heart? Does one desire to be holy? That is what God requires.

The Christian Life is a lifelong battle. Don't let Satan accuse and discourage you, my beloved brothers.

 

[oyster67]

I also get afraid and anxious.

We all do. It does not mean we have no faith; it just means there is growing room.

 

[oyster67]

This is made apparent by their constant harping on grace being a "license to sin."

Actually, I harp on grace not being a license to sin.

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (KJV)

This is possible because of Jesus' blood, not our good works. We must place our faith in the Blood and keep it there.

i fail in this too. every time i worry, every time i get upset over inconsequential things, every time i am afraid to do something i know i ought -- even if i do that thing, my trepidation or even a mere second thought shows i am lacking faith; my faith is not as strong and complete as it should be.

it is a good example, i think, when we really examine ourselves and meditate on what it means to have complete faith in Him - an example that we fall short; we have not attained: he can work more in us, and is working more in us.

it is the one who confesses their failings that is forgiven of them, not the one who pretends they have none.

Lord, increase our faith!

Amen!
Romans
7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Fret not, our flesh shall be glorified someday. Until then, let us pray one for another and keep the faith.

 

[Snacks]

Why do you turn grace into disgrace with the false OSAS doctrine?
Why are God's commandments so grievous to the OSAS crowd when the Bible says they are not?
Why do you choose high sounding spiritual platitudes instead of sound Biblical reasoning?

You claim "rest in Jesus" allows you to disregard His commandment to rest on the Sabbath day, but according to that logic, when Jesus becomes our truth we can lie, or when Jesus becomes our eternal reward we can rob banks. Surely, even one who is gullible enough to believe OSAS isn't too dense to see that we're not at liberty to lie or steal, so why insist we can break the Sabbath?

"Blessed are they which DO HIS COMMANDMENTS that they may have right to the Tree of Life and may enter into the gates to the city". - Revelation 22:14 KJV

Do you maintain your salvation or is Jesus’ sinless life, death and Resurrection good enough to keep you saved?

 

[Snacks]

Unfortunately, OSAS is a doctrine of devils which has deceived many into believing they may obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

Eternal assurance is for those who've made a full surrender, not to those who keep claiming "you can't keep the Ten Commandments" which is as pathetic as a cheating husband arguing "no man can be faithful to his wife"...and here lies the crux of the issue: the OSAS crowd doesn't know the first thing about loving Jesus because all they do is search for reasons to "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame" (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV).

I, as well as many OSAS folks, have cried on bended knee asking God for forgiveness, a purified heart and lifelong guidance, protection and favor. His grace is sufficient; those are His words. If you don’t believe God’s grace is sufficient then you’re calling Him a liar and are guilty of blasphemy.