Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Yes there are 3 main groups of believers in this thread
- First group believes salvation is by faith alone.
- Second group believes salvation is by faith AND works.
- Third group believes salvation is by faith alone, but if there are no works after, you are not really saved. This is using a circular argument.
I believe during the Tribulation, you are saved by faith AND works. (Revelation 14:12)
Revelation 14:12, NIV: "This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus."
What do you mean during tribulation? Is that 7 years tribulation?
What do you mean faith alone?
Is that mean no matter what you do, killing, not help poor (Matt 25) as long believe Jesus as God save?
And how you know this verse only for people during tribulation
Matt 25
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Cursed into everlasting fire
Must be hell or not save
Yes, the 7 years.
Matthew 25 is immediately after Matthew 24. In Matthew 24, Jesus was explaining to his disciples the Tribulation period. And the start of that story stated
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
Under OT prophecy, Jesus would return at the end of the Tribulation, and nations always refer to gentile nations. The singular nation refers to Israel
My brother, let do math
You say Matt 25 happen after Matt 24:31
And you say Matt 25 happen in 7 year tribulation
After Matt 24:31 no more tribulation my bro
Like what you say Jesus cone after tribulation.
Matthew 24 explained the Tribulation.
Matthew 25:31 states Jesus coming back at the end of the Tribulation, so yes, no more Tribulation when he returns.
So he will come back and judge which gentile would qualify to live on during the 1000 year reign of Christ, and which would go on to the lake of fire, as that judgement of the sheep and goats indicated.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
The King say take your inheritance
Why you think inheritance is 1000 years kingdom
Why not heaven
The other part go to everlasting fire or hell, why the sheep not inherit everlasting kingdom?
What do you mean by gentile, is that non believer?
The 1000 year reign of Christ is the promised kingdom of heaven on Earth in OT prophecy.
Israel the nation and all the OT saints, including Abraham will be on Earth during those 1000 years. The 12 apostles will be sitting on 12 thrones judging on matters involving the 12 tribes on Earth during those 1000 years.
There will also be gentiles living on Earth too, which are those gentiles saved during the Tribulation.
Zechariah 8 has the details.
But the Body of Christ, which is those of us who are saved now during this age of grace, our destiny is in the heaven, where we will be during the same 1000 years.
We gentiles who are saved now are in the Body of Christ, so we are Christian, but not Jews. We will receive a redeemed body and will be living in the heaven during the 1000 years.
Gentiles who will be saved during the Tribulation, are not in the Body of Christ. If they are deemed to be sheep during Matthew 25:31-46, they will be living on Earth during the same 1000 years in their earthly bodies.
So you believe all Jews regardless believe in Jesus or not go to heaven,
Christian ok to kill as long as have faith go to heaven
Non Christian during tribulation must have faith and work to go to heaven
Am I correct?
The entire nation of Israel will believe in Jesus at the end of Tribulation. So all Jews who are alive and part of Israel during that time will be saved.
And yes, during the Tribulation, everyone, Jew or gentile, need to have faith AND woks to be saved.
As for your repeated fascination with murder, I have answered that already in the past.
So, during the tribulation if one believe in Jesus and die in the next second, go to hell because don't have work, am I correct?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
nothing but faith will save you my friend, when you say works will not earn you salvation, but faith alone is not correct, you are in affect claiming faith plus works saves you,
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
This is faith plus works, your telling us that works are required to earn salvation
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Your the one who is playing with words my frienfs
james is speaking to people who have no faith period, their faith is dead, they are hearers not doers. You love using that passage but refuse to listen to paul when he said it is grace OT works, otherwise grace is no longer grace, it is not of works lest we should boast, and it is not by works but by Gods mercy.
you can’t earn your salvation my friend, you couod Works ever minute of every day for the rest of yur life and you would fall short the penalty of sin is death, not doing good works9 good works does not remove sin or the penalty of sin we can not redeem ourself by good works, we are redeemed by the blood of Christ
if your trying to be righteous of your own effort you better be perfectly because that is what is required, as moses and paul both said cursed is the one who does not obey every world as james made clear. If by yur effort yu keep all thenlaw, yet stumble in one are, yur guilty of tha law. Cursed, worthy of eternal death.
when you workers realize how guilty you are and stop trying to tell us who KNOW how guilty we are how we have to follow you, you will understand what Paul and david and Abraham and James and all other men who have fallen on their knees unable to even look up to God. And cry out for his mercy,
until then, I will continue to pray for you
Depends on factors such as whether you took the mark of the beast and so on
How about one not take the mark, accept Jesus and die the next second, before have time to help the poor or other good work?
For that, only Jesus when he comes back and know and makes the decision at the judgment of the sheep and goats.
He has perfect knowledge of what this one has done, I do not. If he didn't offer to help feed or clothe any of the persecuted Jews before he accepted Jesus (Matthew 25:31-46), he may still be cast into the lake of fire.
Thus not taking the mark of the beast is just one of the many work requirements to be saved during the Tribulation.