Not By Works

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BillG said:
Don't fully understand the term generic but I would say that works are generic as a result of the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

When concerning works we are talking about works done for the right reason.
Not to earn it, but because we are the children of God and do it for the right reason.

For me works are two fold. Works towards others and works in our lives for us.

Jesus said "Go the extra mile" put in its historical concept to the Jews this was alien to them. The Jewsish mail could be ordered to carry the battle fatigue for a Roman soldier for a mile.
If you refused then you could be put to death.

Jesus also said "Love your enemies and do good to those who hate you"

Now if we look at the fruit of love I think we find that as this fruit grows then we progress to the extra mile.

What we then display is the love of God that is in use and we show God to others.
That then opens up the opportunity for those who see it to ask questions.

Can you imagine a conversation between the Roman soldier and the Jewish man he seconded to carry his battle fatigues?

Ok you Jew, you've done the mile your free to go.
The Jewish man says"Lets walk another mile"
Roman soldier "Why would you want to,? I don't like you and you don't like me"
The Jewish man says "Because I love (agape) you and so does Jesus"

So we grow in the fruit of love our enemies and go the extra mile.

To me the work here is generic as a result of the fruit.
Is it possible that the generic is the fruit that leads to the work?

I think so.
Our new nature is the generic nature of that as child of God.
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Awesome explanation of my term "generic"
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Yes

and if anyone claims to have faith, but has no works, can their faith save them?

in James. Jew. No, a dead faith never saved anyone

now this is not promoting works, its condemning a false faith
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Paul said we must examine ourselves if we are in the faith. What need is there to examine ourselves if there is no such thing as false faith.

If faith saves us, and it does, then the command to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith means that it is possible to have a false confession.

James is dealing with the issue of those that MAY have a false confession.

There are many warnings about false confessions in the scripture.
 
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OIC1965 said:
Paul said we must examine ourselves if we are in the faith. What need is there to examine ourselves if there is no such thing as false faith.

If faith saves us, and it does, then the command to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith means that it is possible to have a false confession.

James is dealing with the issue of those that MAY have a false confession.
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Interesting points you raised.

Maybe the point here is confession.

As Paul says

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

The crunch here is V9 mainly being Lord and raised from death.

Over here their are people who go to church because it's the thing you do as we are a Christian country (culture). Then we have those who consider themselves Christian because of the culture.

Not had lots but a few occasions when I have wondered if in fact they are Christian or as I say "Followers of Jesus" I quote verse 9. Alas they fall foul of that. Mainly on the basis of being raised from the dead.

That being the case then he is not Lord and it's a false confession.

Sadly I have had to refuse baptism for 2 people who refused to confess that they believe Jesus rose again.
 
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BillG said:
Interesting points you raised.

Maybe the point here is confession.

As Paul says

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

The crunch here is V9 mainly being Lord and raised from death.

Over here their are people who go to church because it's the thing you do as we are a Christian country (culture). Then we have those who consider themselves Christian because of the culture.

Not had lots but a few occasions when I have wondered if in fact they are Christian or as I say "Followers of Jesus" I quote verse 9. Alas they fall foul of that. Mainly on the basis of being raised from the dead.

That being the case then he is not Lord and it's a false confession.

Sadly I have had to refuse baptism for 2 people who refused to confess that they believe Jesus rose again.
Click to expand...

We have cultural Christians here in the States too. It’s a false hope. Christianity is based on knowing God.

Wanting to be baptized while not believing in the resurrection is strange indeed, seeing that the whole thing represents the death,burial, and resurrection of Christ and our union with Him in those realities. His death, our death. His resurrection, we rise with Him, etc.
 
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If you believe that "good works" complete/give surety to your salvation then it is impossible to not have some amount of one of the things God hates...self righteousness. You have to take your focus and love of God and look to yourself as part of the party that sustains your eternal life. Which, the Spirit tells me is false.
Believing you must concern yourself to plan and complete good works to sustain and/or complete your salvation leaves very little to no room for love, but necessity, and if you recall, Paul says he can God to extremes with good works, and if they are not done in love, they profit NOTHING.
Good works come with the freedom of knowing the truth. Period.
 
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My personal opinion, which I think is very Biblical, about showing LOVE threw deeds after SALVATION is:

If the MOTIVE is correctly Agape LOVE, you will not claim credit for the deed;
Because it was CHIRST IN ME, who did that deed!

Galatians 2:20 (NKJV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
 
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“Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:6)

whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:15-16)
 
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star said:
We either accept Jesus Christ through confession, repentance and trust or we do not. I'm not understanding "false faith or false confession."
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False faith would be someone who believes but has no real trust, they would consider themselves christian. But could continue to live like the world or a licentious person, or on the other had, depend on works because their faith in Christ is not there. They can not be.ie be in true living grace apart from works. Or the legalistic believer

neither have repented and neither are saved
 
eternally-gratefull said:
False faith would be someone who believes but has no real trust, they would consider themselves christian. But could continue to live like the world or a licentious person, or on the other had, depend on works because their faith in Christ is not there. They can not be.ie be in true living grace apart from works. Or the legalistic believer

neither have repented and neither are saved
Click to expand...

How can one believe in Christ and ask him to save him/her without some level of trust however small?
 
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