Not By Works

[Infinite_Ark]

Are you asking out of concern for your own salvation?

Often times I think where people get tripped up with salvation and feeling assured is looking at oneself. Examples are questioning one's salvation because of struggling with sin or asking " do I have enough faith?", " have I truly repented?" Etc.

Salvation is God's work, not our work. Look to Jesus. Look to the cross. Is this not enough? Look to his word. Look to Jesus's character. He did not turn anyone away. He cared for people's physically health through healing them who came to him time and time again. Jesus is also the physician of our souls and He cares for you.

Yes, I'm asking out of concern for myself. My family was very religious all my formative years. When I got older I started to walk away from the religion because of really bad experiences at the hands of the religious. I started to look to other belief systems. Now years later I'm wondering if after all that am I still saved? Was I saved when I was but 12 years old and got baptized mostly to stop the abuse?
Did that count? Or being God knows everything did he know why I did that and I'm not really saved now?
I guess I just want answers and assurance rather than thinking if I just believe I am saved that I am. I think I don't make sense now so I'll leave it there.

Thank you for your assistance and for everyone here giving their sincere responses. They are deeply appreciated.

 

[Infinite_Ark]

Believing one is born predestined to go to Heaven whilst others are born without even having the chance to choose to follow Jesus is a false religion called Calvinism. It does not even remotely resemble Christianity, which teaches the God loves all and gave His only begotten Son for all and that He would gladly have all come to repentance of their own free will.

God is not some dark master of delusion. Blessed assurance is beautiful, wonderful, and for real. Why someone would ever walk away from this boggles my mind, but the Bible teaches us that some will actually commit horrible apostacy. Men will return to vomit and mire after tasting of the goodness of the Lord.

Thank you very much for that.

 

[oyster67]

Thank you very much for that.

He loves you. Just give Him a chance to show you. Remember, though, that you must yield to Him total control. It is safe to give yourself to the One who made you, died for you, loves you, and has wonderful plans for you. His plans for us are far better than anything we could dream up for ourselves.

 

[CherieR]

Yes, I'm asking out of concern for myself. My family was very religious all my formative years. When I got older I started to walk away from the religion because of really bad experiences at the hands of the religious. I started to look to other belief systems. Now years later I'm wondering if after all that am I still saved? Was I saved when I was but 12 years old and got baptized mostly to stop the abuse?
Did that count? Or being God knows everything did he know why I did that and I'm not really saved now?
I guess I just want answers and assurance rather than thinking if I just believe I am saved that I am. I think I don't make sense now so I'll leave it there.

Thank you for your assistance and for everyone here giving their sincere responses. They are deeply appreciated.

I can understand and relate to asking if I'm saved. I have found John 6:37 encouraging for myself. I think oftentimes when I have had doubt I find thoughts looking to me. Example of these thoughts are what if I don't understand?, what if I don't really believe?, what if I misunderstood the message of the gospel and missed something important?

Scripture has been helpful for me as well as songs. Keep your focus on Jesus. He is the Savior and He doesn't need any help saving. Sometimes I prayed to Jesus saying things such as, "I am looking to you as my Savior. ", "I entrust my eternity to you. ", " Thank you for coming for me"

It really is not about what words you say in prayer, remember Jesus alone saves. Just trust him to be your Savior.

 

[VCO]

My friend

if you did not come to the point you called out to him, you would not be saved today.
. . .

You missed the WHOLE POINT. GOD's Plan Preordained or Predestined that I would willingly surrender to HIM, exactly as it manifested itself.


Romans 8:28-31 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.
31 What then are we to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us?


Did you take a coupon cutter and cut those verses out of your Bible ? ? ?

There is ABSOLUTELY no part of the Salvation of Our Human Spirit, that we can pat ourselves on the back for, or even lay claim that WE DID IT.

I do not see how this is so hard for you to Grasp. Yes, I believe in Freedom To Choose, BUT GOD IS ALL KNOWING, and HE IS ALL KNOWING ENOUGH, THAT HE KNOWS THE OUTCOME OF EXACTLY WHAT CHOICES WE WILL MAKE THROUGHOUT OUR ENTIRE LIFE. HE KNEW THE STORY OF MY ENTIRE LIFE BEFORE HE FORMED THE WORLD. You have got to rethink just how BIG GOD REALLY IS.


Galatians 2:20 (ESV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.


There is another verse you need to meditate on.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You missed the WHOLE POINT. GOD's Plan Preordained or Predestined that I would willingly surrender to HIM, exactly as it manifested itself.


Romans 8:28-31 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.
31 What then are we to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us?


Did you take a coupon cutter and cut those verses out of your Bible ? ? ?

There is ABSOLUTELY no part of the Salvation of Our Human Spirit, that we can pat ourselves on the back for, or even lay claim that WE DID IT.

I do not see how this is so hard for you to Grasp. Yes, I believe in Freedom To Choose, BUT GOD IS ALL KNOWING, and HE IS ALL KNOWING ENOUGH, THAT HE KNOWS THE OUTCOME OF EXACTLY WHAT CHOICES WE WILL MAKE THROUGHOUT OUR ENTIRE LIFE. HE KNEW THE STORY OF MY ENTIRE LIFE BEFORE HE FORMED THE WORLD. You have got to rethink just how BIG GOD REALLY IS.


Galatians 2:20 (ESV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.


There is another verse you need to meditate on.

Like I said bro, back to the temple thread,

I can not buy this crap you are spouting, and you have once again misrepresented my belief system. So I will not discuss this with you any motel

 

[VCO]

Like I said bro, back to the temple thread,

I can not buy this crap you are spouting, and you have once again misrepresented my belief system. So I will not discuss this with you any motel

No, it will not be enough, to keep you out of heaven. BUT it is the Absolute Truth in my opinion, and MANY Christians who believe in Predestination, believe it should be translated LITERALLY. So we can leave it in the MOTEL you had as your last word.

Typos, get worse as we get older. LOL!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, it will not be enough, to keep you out of heaven. BUT it is the Absolute Truth in my opinion, and MANY Christians who believe in Predestination, believe it should be translated LITERALLY. So we can leave it in the MOTEL you had as your last word.

Typos, get worse as we get older. LOL!

I believe it literally also bro. Just not in the sequence you do. I believe God is all knowing he does not have to wake a person up first. He is capable of drawing and teaching him in a process by his word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word.

My faith did not earn my salvation unless my faith was in me. It was not it was totally in God and his work

 

[VCO]

I believe it literally also bro. Just not in the sequence you do. I believe God is all knowing he does not have to wake a person up first. He is capable of drawing and teaching him in a process by his word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word.

My faith did not earn my salvation unless my faith was in me. It was not it was totally in God and his work.

I base my sequence of salvation on my experience. I KNOW I would have gone to Hades/Hell IF I had finished pulling that trigger the NIGHT I RECEIVED HIM AS LORD. I believe that decision to RECIEVE HIM, was NOT because of my Intellect, it was BECAUSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. You see I REALLY DID WANT TO KILL MYSELF, and the Holy Spirit Put TERROR in my HEART so that I would not DO IT. So why did I try it again, two night Later ? ? ? JUST PLAIN STUPID I GUESS. There was no DOUBT that I had BELIEVED A FALSE GOSPEL. I thought I was a CHRISTIAN, because of my Infant Baptism, Because I took up space on a Pew regularly, and Because I acknowledged the Stories about JESUS were TRUE. Someone should have told me, "Even the Demons believe that Much."

Everything about my BELIEFS became NEW, from that FIRST DAY ON. I KNOW HE SAVED ME FROM BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF TIME, BUT I HAD YET TO RECIEVE THAT FREE GIFT OF FAITH. I do not believe an opposite DECISION was even POSSIBLE. That GIFT OF FAITH, was like a Light Switch when on, and therefore the RECEIVING HIM HAS TO BE TOTALLY of the Holy Spirit. Before RECEIVING HIM, the Bible was the MOST boring book on earth, and after Receiving HIM it quickly became the Most exciting book on earth. Before RECEIVING HIM my so-called Prayer Life was Rare, and then ONLY Memorized Prayers from Sunday School, and after I RECEIVED HIM, it took on a WHOLE NEW INTIMATE MEANS. He Answered my PRAYERS, sometimes by leading me to the right Scriptures, and sometimes by putting the thought in my HEART; and sometimes by making me an I witness to an event that totally made my question understandable. The difference was Night and Day.

A thought just came to me. WHEN does Sanctification Begin ? ? ? That would be WHEN YOU RECEIVE JESUS AS YOUR PERSONAL LORD.
Therefore RECEIVING HIM is part of the Sanctification Process, while SALVATION is a FREE GIFT.



As far as the last statement that I highlighted in Red, IF you meant what I think you meant.

2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:19 (HCSB)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, having this inscription: The Lord knows those who are His, and Everyone who names the name of the Lord must turn away from unrighteousness.

 

[VCO]

I believe it literally also bro. Just not in the sequence you do. I believe God is all knowing he does not have to wake a person up first. He is capable of drawing and teaching him in a process by his word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word.

My faith did not earn my salvation unless my faith was in me. It was not it was totally in God and his work

I do not think I ever told you, that NO ONE in the old fashioned Lutheran Church that I was a member of; that NO TEACHING ON HOW TO RECEIVE HIM AS LORD, was EVER TAUGHT. THEY THOUGHT TEACHING SOMEONE HOW TO BE SAVED, was works righteousness. TOTALLY FROWNED UPON in that Church. IT CAME TO me instantly, NEVER DID I learn how it was done. HE CONVICTED ME, and INSTANTLY I WAS BEGGING HIM TO FORGIVE ME, Over and Over again. Then the HOLY SPIRIT GAVE ME THE PRAYER, that turned out to be a somewhat typical Sinners Prayer that other Churches TEACH.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not think I ever told you, that NO ONE in the old fashioned Lutheran Church that I was a member of; that NO TEACHING ON HOW TO RECEIVE HIM AS LORD, was EVER TAUGHT. THEY THOUGHT TEACHING SOMEONE HOW TO BE SAVED, was works righteousness. TOTALLY FROWNED UPON in that Church. IT CAME TO me instantly, NEVER DID I learn how it was done. HE CONVICTED ME, and INSTANTLY I WAS BEGGING HIM TO FORGIVE ME, Over and Over again. Then the HOLY SPIRIT GAVE ME THE PRAYER, that turned out to be a somewhat typical Sinners Prayer that other Churches TEACH.

I am sure you believe that bro, that it just happened in a split second, and maybe you do not see how God drew you. but I can see it, in everything you say, what I do know, is you are my brother, and that’s all that matters

 

[infinitekhanol]

"oyster67, posted
We were not born again before time began. This is strange corn that you are trying to feed us.[/QUOTE]


Just say God foreordained it before time began or before the foundation of the earth and manifested it at the appointed time. There is nothing strange about that post.

 

[VCO]

I am sure you believe that bro, that it just happened in a split second, and maybe you do not see how God drew you. but I can see it, in everything you say, what I do know, is you are my brother, and that’s all that matters

NO, HE DREW ME, but THAT was instantaneous, ALSO. I literally BELIEVED a FALSE GOSPEL, and THOUGHT Acknowledging the stories about JESUS, were TRUE, was what a Christian was all about.

James 2:19-20 (ESV)
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

NO, that verse 20 is not describing justification that works are part of salvation. HOWEVER you can see that person was SAVED LONG BEFORE there was any evidence that person was SAVED. I thought one hour a week was enough to call myself a CHRISTIAN, the REST OF THE WEEK I LIVED LIKE THE DEVIL HIMSELF.

I KNOW WHAT Happened that NIGHT of my Third attempt at SUICIDE, you cannot even GRASP IT.

We are wasting TIME, and do not want to discuss this further.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

NO, HE DREW ME, but THAT was instantaneous, ALSO. I literally BELIEVED a FALSE GOSPEL, and THOUGHT Acknowledging the stories about JESUS, were TRUE, was what a Christian was all about.

James 2:19-20 (ESV)
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

NO, that verse 20 is not describing justification that works are part of salvation. HOWEVER you can see that person was SAVED LONG BEFORE there was any evidence that person was SAVED. I thought one hour a week was enough to call myself a CHRISTIAN, the REST OF THE WEEK I LIVED LIKE THE DEVIL HIMSELF.

I KNOW WHAT Happened that NIGHT of my Third attempt at SUICIDE, you cannot even GRASP IT.

We are wasting TIME, and do not want to discuss this further.

Neither do I. It is frustrating

 

[eternally-gratefull]

NOT BY WORKS of righteousness (any good deed) which we have done but by his mercy (it’s a gift of God) he saved us (a done deal) by the washing and renewal (spiritual baptism and new birth) of the Holy Spirit.

 

[OIC1965]

NOT BY WORKS of righteousness (any good deed) which we have done but by his mercy (it’s a gift of God) he saved us (a done deal) by the washing and renewal (spiritual baptism and new birth) of the Holy Spirit.

Amen. A big problem is that people treat faith as if it is nothing more than an act of the human will. It is more than an act of the human will by itself.

Scriptural support for this.

“ who were born, not of bloods, NOR BY THE WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD. (caps for emphasis)

So our will/choice is not a WORK that accomplishes our salvation, as you have said many times.

I know that we must believe in order to be saved, but I think that it is an error that is taught by some that faith is a mere act of the will that we accomplish in our own strength. As you have said, we would not have believed apart from God drawing us.

Now I will say in advance (to silence the Calvinist charges) that this grace which has Called us to faith can and may be resisted. But I credit the work of the New Birth to God, not man or Man’s will

It is not of Him that wills or runs, but of God who shows mercy.

And as many as received Him to them He gave authority or power to become sons of God

Does this mean that We were born again by some unilateral action that we took ? Of course not.

It means that the authority to become the sons of God is not something we work at to attain. It is something we receive from Him as a gift. Gift in the sense that the power is given to us to believe.

 

[BenjaminN]

1 John 2 (ESV)

4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 John 2 (ESV)

4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

This is true. Those who are saved do keep his commands

But remember. Those that do not know him can do them also. A non believe can not commit adultery. So using this as a means to determine who is saved is faulty logic
also. If we are doing them to get saved we will fail. Because according to the law perfection is required

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen. A big problem is that people treat faith as if it is nothing more than an act of the human will. It is more than an act of the human will by itself.

Scriptural support for this.

“ who were born, not of bloods, NOR BY THE WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD. (caps for emphasis)

So our will/choice is not a WORK that accomplishes our salvation, as you have said many times.

I know that we must believe in order to be saved, but I think that it is an error that is taught by some that faith is a mere act of the will that we accomplish in our own strength. As you have said, we would not have believed apart from God drawing us.

Now I will say in advance (to silence the Calvinist charges) that this grace which has Called us to faith can and may be resisted. But I credit the work of the New Birth to God, not man or Man’s will

It is not of Him that wills or runs, but of God who shows mercy.

And as many as received Him to them He gave authority or power to become sons of God

Does this mean that We were born again by some unilateral action that we took ? Of course not.

It means that the authority to become the sons of God is not something we work at to attain. It is something we receive from Him as a gift. Gift in the sense that the power is given to us to believe.

As I have shared before. As a rescue swimmer tries to rescue someone who is drowning. That person has to have faith in the swimmer and not try to help. If he tried to help. Chances are both the swimmer and person who needs may die

That person who trusted in the one who was sent to save him did not save himself. Nor can he take credit. All the credit goes to the one who risked their life to save him

 

[OIC1965]

As I have shared before. As a rescue swimmer tries to rescue someone who is drowning. That person has to have faith in the swimmer and not try to help. If he tried to help. Chances are both the swimmer and person who needs may die

That person who trusted in the one who was sent to save him did not save himself. Nor can he take credit. All the credit goes to the one who risked their life to save him

Excellent analogy. Seeking to be made righteous before God by any work only harms and hinders. We need the Righteousness that comes by faith in Christ.