Not By Works

[Fastfredy0]

Sad thing is their take on God giving them eternal life because he saw they'd choose him is nothing but hypothetical nonsense, it is a philosophy, it isn't the Gospel or Biblical.

Again, it isn't grace, it's merit.

Agreed.
Merit definition: the quality of being particularly good or worthy [self generated faith via free will], especially so as to deserve praise or reward [salvation].
How one can, without God's help, save himself by self generated salvific faith and not claim merit escapes me given the definition. Which is to say, "I did 'X' to be saved which has no merit .... while the guy who didn't do 'x' to be saved gets a different result. Very strange logic; so, so similar to what I call 'merit' which I asociated with 'works' ... which relates to the topic, Saved by Works.

 

[biker]

or do they mean that it is written in English.

I took that into consideration.

But look at this portion here:

"we do not deny, nay we affirm and avow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible in English, set forth by men of our profession, (for we have seen none of theirs [i.e. the translators opponents, the Roman Catholics] of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God.


They have not seen anyone's Bible ever before.

How Ironic!

They are just listening to the king talk as they write and bam we get a Bible.

So they don't even know if what they are writing is true or not, they have never seen a Bible before!

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

What you do not understand IS JESUS PAID IT ALL.
Every sin you do, every sin of omitting to do good.
AND AVERY SIN IN YOUR THOUGHTS.
IT WAS ALL PAID FOR ON THE CROSS.

1 Corinthians 6:20 (NASB)
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Romans 5:8-10 (NASB)
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

1 Corinthians 6:20 (NASB)
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

do you believe in glorifying God with your body as this says?

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life .


do you believe in living your life for God - by His power (the Spirit), in taking on the mind of Christ daily - as your own?


surely you do not believe in living Without Christ do you? on your own power, all alone, without His life In You? if we are to live in Christ (by His Life - in Us) then we must ALLOW the Spirit to work in us AND choose the good that it shows us (tells us) day by day to do. we cannot do Nothing (No Work).

nature even shows us plainly all the time that there MUST BE WORK DONE. if you don't work any your life will fall apart eventually. so too with the Spirit.

you will not grow at least if you do not stay in the Spirit or at least keep coming back to it, seek spiritual things daily or often, think good things daily or as often as you can, choose good helpful things daily (or often). these are all Forms of Doing Things my friend, i.e. - WORK.

 

[stonesoffire]

Read the literal Greek if you want to know about Grace, because believing what the English Bible claims won't get you very far.

According to Strongs....in the Old Testament, it would be unmerited favor. Said to be as one superior bending down in kindness to one inferior. Simply in my words.

NT grace is the Divine influence upon the heart, with its reflection in the life, including gratitude. Simply. Not sure why it’s including gratitude for imo, it should be resulting in gratitude. But, hey! I didnt write the concordance.

Is this what you mean?

 

[biker]

Biker, when does a “child” of God ever get away from rebelling which is what sin is, right? God is our Father! He chastises. Sometimes He just lets us go on until we get ourselves caught in a web only He can get us out of.

It’s His promise of His goodness of His keeping power.

Look at David.

1 night with Bathsheba immediately led to murdering her husband, losing the baby, and having the prophet tell you are wrong.
Then later on, his children are murdered. His son sleeps with his concubines before all of Israel.

We are talking 1 sin and 25 years of heartache.

So, even if we have Grace, and we choose to sin, our sins find us. Somewhere in life we suffer over it.

So, how is it we suffer from sins, but we think we are saved by Grace from them?

Delusion is how.

And YES, Rebellion is the same as Witchcraft!

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

I took that into consideration.

But look at this portion here:

"we do not deny, nay we affirm and avow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible in English, set forth by men of our profession, (for we have seen none of theirs [i.e. the translators opponents, the Roman Catholics] of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God.


They have not seen anyone's Bible ever before.

How Ironic!

They are just listening to the king talk as they write and bam we get a Bible.

So they don't even know if what they are writing is true or not, they have never seen a Bible before!

they are just seeing what they are translating from? what does meanest mean btw?

 

[preacher4truth]

Agreed.
Merit definition: the quality of being particularly good or worthy [self generated faith via free will], especially so as to deserve praise or reward [salvation].
How one can, without God's help, save himself by self generated salvific faith and not claim merit escapes me given the definition. Which is to say, "I did 'X' to be saved which has no merit .... while the guy who didn't do 'x' to be saved gets a different result. Very strange logic; so, so similar to what I call 'merit' which I asociated with 'works' ... which relates to the topic, Saved by Works.

This is why it is absurd watching them go after those who deny the "eternal security" of the believer, accusing them of being saved by works, when they believe they merited it by an action themselves. This is the error of conditional election which is nothing less than merited salvation.

 

[biker]

According to Strongs....in the Old Testament, it would be unmerited favor. Said to be as one superior bending down in kindness to one inferior. Simply in my words.

NT grace is the Divine influence upon the heart, with its reflection in the life, including gratitude. Simply. Not sure why it’s including gratitude for imo, it should be resulting in gratitude. But, hey! I didnt write the concordance.

Is this what you mean?

In the Hebrew there is a word that means MERCIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS endless s here.

When God went to the Cross, He had Mercy for the Jews and Grace for the Gentiles.

It's why I stated, once Grace stops being a Gift (because we are Grateful), and Grace becomes I am saved no matter what, we have legalized Grace and it no longers becomes a Gift!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In the Hebrew there is a word that means MERCIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS endless s here.

When God went to the Cross, He had Mercy for the Jews and Grace for the Gentiles.

It's why I stated, once Grace stops being a Gift (because we are Grateful), and Grace becomes I am saved no matter what, we have legalized Grace and it no longers becomes a Gift!

Where do you come up with this stuff?

if my father gives me a gift, and I think that gift is min no matter what it stops being a gift?

man this place is really scaring me lately

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is why it is absurd watching them go after those who deny the "eternal security" of the believer, accusing them of being saved by works, when they believe they merited it by an action themselves. This is the error of conditional election which is nothing less than merited salvation.

Lol what a joke

so because I place my faith in god 100 % and myself 0 %

I merit salvation

 

[biker]

they are just seeing what they are translating from? what does meanest mean btw?

They are saying they have never seen another translation before. Ironic since the Latin Vulgate was around since the 5th Century. They are claiming their translation is directly from what King James is telling them.


And in olde English, Meanest means = they are using a Legal Term for what they have just done!

Basically it means “void from the beginning” (void being one of those “not really latin but still latin” words). It’s a legal fiction where something is declared to be completely obliterated from history as if it had never been done, and everything that happened as a consequence of it has to be undone.

 

[biker]

Where do you come up with this stuff?

if my father gives me a gift, and I think that gift is min no matter what it stops being a gift?

man this place is really scaring me lately

Your Father gave you a gift. You have no right to ever think of it not as a Gift. If you think you are justified by your Gift, then you are not Saved by Grace, but by your own terminology.

 

[biker]

Where do you come up with this stuff?

if my father gives me a gift, and I think that gift is min no matter what it stops being a gift?

man this place is really scaring me lately

The Greek!

You should learn it since the KJV Bible is not even a Bible. Even the writers claim it's not to be taken or used as a Bible but a paraphrase reference!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your Father gave you a gift. You have no right to ever think of it not as a Gift. If you think you are justified by your Gift, then you are not Saved by Grace, but by your own terminology.

So,God gives me the gift of justification, salvation, eternal life, all,these things based on the price his son paid on Calvary

but if I think I am justified by gods gift

i am saved by my own terminology?

what church do you go to?

 

[star]

When Jesus Christ went to the Cross:

1 Peter 3:18-20 New International Version (NIV)
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Romans 6:23 it says, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.” GIFT

A gift, once accepted, cannot be lost.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Greek!

You should learn it since the KJV Bible is not even a Bible. Even the writers claim it's not to be taken or used as a Bible but a paraphrase reference!

Well since I do not determin my belief on an English translation from the 1600’s I have no Idea what your trying to accuse me of

 

[biker]

So,God gives me the gift of justification, salvation, eternal life, all,these things based on the price his son paid on Calvary

but if I think I am justified by gods gift

i am saved by my own terminology?

what church do you go to?

Is Grace a gift to you or do you think because you believe in God He owes you Grace?

 

[stonesoffire]

God made us worthy to begin the walk in sainthood, given that free opportunity by God, we are to walk worthy of this unspeakable gift.

Ephesians 4:1-3
[1] I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, [2] With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; [3] Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

What meaneth the vocation wherewith ye’eth are called? Sorry, I love the KJV for study. Just kidding.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is Grace a gift to you or do you think because you believe in God He owes you Grace?

God owes me an eternity in hell

any day I wake up and I am not where I belong, In he’ll, is a good day

grace is a gift to me, and god gave it to me because I asked him to, because I trust my eternal soul to him

 

[biker]

God owes me an eternity in hell

any day I wake up and I am not where I belong, In he’ll, is a good day

grace is a gift to me, and god gave it to me because I asked him to, because I trust my eternal soul to him

AMEN!

Some of us don't act like it is a Gift, but that it is owed. This is what I am talking about.