Not By Works

[DorothyMae]

Where is the preaching against good works? The OP is clear with regards "good works" as not being part of salvation.

Where is the preaching encouraging good works which the Bible tells us to do? All I read is we will (automatically) want to do good works although some admit this is a process (meaning some day in the future they’ll do good works when they feel like it (are changed.))

“Stir one another up to good works” not “discourage one another from doing good works for others trying to earn something” is the scripture.

 

[Pulie]

When GOD SAVED US, it stands for ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. MANY so called Christians do not even know how a PERSON is saved. YET the NARROW GATE PROPHECY, TEACHES:

Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction {the destruction of hades/hell}, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
{Repentance, and willing submission to JESUS as LORD (master) out of AGAPE LOVE.}

It says FEW FIND IT, NOT MANY FIND IT. So what is the problem ? ? ? They want a SAVIOR, but FEW want a LORD of their lives.

Thank you.

 

[Pulie]

Some do

Actually my experience is no matter how many times it is explained, no answer is acceptable.

This question is only important to those who have feel their personal worthiness/effort is necessary for salvation.

The born again believer who understands saving grace knows all sin was dealt with at the cross.

Some do accept it and others don't.

I need an adequate explanation and I noticed that you don't usually refer to scriptures when defending your school of thought.

Give people enough information to ponder on . I don't want to choose these idea and be unable to defend it adequately from a biblical base.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would have laughed out loud but it is four in the morning and everyone else is sleeping. I have no intention on putting you on ignore. I recall you were not very grateful, despite your name, for a matter we discussed earlier but I did not put you on ignore.

You do not see the difference between being saved, that is sins forgiven, and knowing God. The former requires repentance and asking God's forgiveness for sin. The latter requires a minimum degree of obedience to Him. This is not something is taught much from the pulpit as I suspect that many pastors do not understand God either and so do not even know it exists.

I have noticed on sites like these that there are believers, some, who long to know and understand God. They are saved, sometimes long ago, and have an active prayer life and so on, but they do not understand God and long to do so. I am giving them the key to understanding God.

Remember this if you will, when you hear a speaker say that we cannot understand God, we do not understand God, or they do not understand God, that this is the exact point I am addressing. I am endeavoring to give these hungry brothers and sisters the hope that in this life they can understand God and how.

What I see is even after all out talks, you still have no understanding of anything I believe

i see that too, the corinthian church was like that, saved for awhile yet still babes in Christ needed milk not meat. You feed meat to a baby it will get sick. You need to feed them milk.

and one think YOU need to hear and understand, when YOU give them false information, yu are not helping them, yu are hurting them

thats what WE are trying to prevent,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So I am going to heaven if I am saved but found guilty of being a serial killer and don't even care about my actions? If yes please provide me with scripture so I can do thorough investigation.

I think that was my question

Answer my question adequately, support it with scriptures.

So you can be saved and do those things?

john tells us we who are born of god can’t live in sin, whoever lives in sin has never seen or known God
I am actually suprised you think that person was ever saved,

 

[Pulie]

They are not

Where are these stories in the Bible?

They are not in the Bible.

It's their Testimony and that does not mean all our testimonies should be found in the Bible.

Imagine you telling me your testimony and I respond by saying, well it's not in the Bible.

What I like about their stories is a change of heart.

 

[walknlight]

Hi!

I quoted the Bible verbatim.

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Thats verbatim.....

Only God gives the peace that passes all understanding, not men
Only God sets apart (HOLY), nothing we do in and of ourselves,

2Cor 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Cor 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

HE DID and DOES HIS WORKS using whoever or whatever HE chooses.

God Bless

 

[ToastAndTea]

Please show me in the Bible( New Testament)where people were saved, lived an ungodly life, never repented etc and went to heaven. Don't show me people that were saved, made mistakes/sinned,repented and went to heaven.

There are stories of people who were saved, died and went to hell( they blame that to not living a godly life). Then resurrected from the dead and given a second chance. Well I cannot tell if their telling the truth or not but that's their experience.

Experiences can be deceiving. We don't know what went on in their lives at that particular moment. What we do have is the word of God, in black and white. Experience should be backed up by scripture first and foremost. That doesn't mean every story will play out exactly as it did in scripture, however we need to take experiences and stories of them in the context that they happened.

For what it's worth, while I believe people can be given visions of hell and the afterlife, I don't believe that anyone can actually go there and return.

Habrews 9:27

 

[DorothyMae]

Hi!


Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Thats verbatim.....

Only God gives the peace that passes all understanding, not men
Only God sets apart (HOLY), nothing we do in and of ourselves,

2Cor 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Cor 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

HE DID and DOES HIS WORKS using whoever or whatever HE chooses.

God Bless

The scripture you quote is addressed to you, not God. You are to follow peace. It’s the command form for the reader alone to do. Doesn’t say God is to pursue giving us peace. Says we are to do the action.

Same with holiness. Says WE are to do the action, pursue, and failing to do so renders a man disqualified for God to show (explain) Himself.

So the very verse you quote disagrees with you.

 

[Pulie]

Yes we are to encourage one another.

I asked How?


Good works are the fruit if being in Christ and Christ in us.
Amen


None
This is what I have learned here
"I was saved"
Past
Something happened(what happened?recieved salvation by Grace through faith in Christ and not by works)

"I am saved"
Present
Something is happening(what is happening?
You in Christ and Christ in you, the result being good works which are the fruit.

"I will be saved"
Future
Something will happen(what will happen?
Our bodies will be glorified
=Salvation
I just explained what I learnt from you guys. Those are not my words.

Start?
lol sorry about this question. I don't know what I was thinking.

Do you think your deeds will save you?
You have not answered me but it's fine.
Honestly, I have never really thought about it until I read about it here. So I don't want to make a quick decision, still going to do thorough research.
This is the struggle in my mind now.

If I believe my deeds will save me then I will be condoning the following:

•I have to work hard so that I can enter in heaven, which is very burdensome
•I will be like the Pharisees and the Bible does not condone what they were doing
•These idea always leaves one feeling like they are not good enough and will therefore never go to heaven.
• Perfection so as to enter into heaven

However if I believe that my deeds will not save me, then I will be condoning the following:

•Don't stress, you can be evil all you want, you will still go to heaven or you will be saved(You can conform to the pattern of this world etc)
•God is pleased when we sin
•No need to repent because you are saved
• The present reality of being like Christ seems to not hold the same value as salvation by grace
•I also don't know your view regarding apostasy

Your definition of salvation is not a strong basis for being against deeds/works. It looks like it favors the idea of works but you can still prove otherwise.



To confess means to come into agreement with God.
Yes If you confess your sins I am faithful and just to forgive you( paraphrase)
How about if I don't confess?
By the way I also confessed when I received Jesus Christ by grace through faith

Born again believers do not go to the judgement seat.
God will never judge them?
Born again believers are just waiting to go to heaven?

As for the rest .. not sure what you are hoping to understand.

You can leave that out

 

[mailmandan]

The scripture you quote is addressed to you, not God. You are to follow peace. It’s the command form for the reader alone to do. Doesn’t say God is to pursue giving us peace. Says we are to do the action.

Same with holiness. Says WE are to do the action, pursue, and failing to do so renders a man disqualified for God to show (explain) Himself.

So the very verse you quote disagrees with you.

Are you the same DorothyMae from the Christian Forums website?

 

[eyes2c]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Totally.

 

[DorothyMae]

Are you the same DorothyMae from the Christian Forums website?

I am.

 

[DorothyMae]

Totally.

If salvation is all you want then you can be satisfied.

 

[Pulie]

Yes experience

Experiences can be deceiving. We don't know what went on in their lives at that particular moment. What we do have is the word of God, in black and white. Experience should be backed up by scripture first and foremost. That doesn't mean every story will play out exactly as it did in scripture, however we need to take experiences and stories of them in the context that they happened.

For what it's worth, while I believe people can be given visions of hell and the afterlife, I don't believe that anyone can actually go there and return.

Habrews 9:27

Yes experiences can be decieving and everything must be viewed from a biblical point.

Yes every story will not be similar to those in scripture.
I agree with what you said, but what should one do when the Bible is not explicit?

Do you believe that Lazarus rose from the dead?That is his experience, however, the Bible does not tell us wether he went to heaven or hell.

 

[ToastAndTea]

Yes experience


Yes experiences can be decieving and everything must be viewed from a biblical point.

Yes every story will not be similar to those in scripture.
I agree with what you said, but what should one do when the Bible is not explicit?

Do you believe that Lazarus rose from the dead?That is his experience, however, the Bible does not tell us wether he went to heaven or hell.

I believe that Lazarus (when he died) went to the place that many old testament followers of Christ went (sheol). Now, I'm not God so I can't tell what happened after he died the first time. But it is assumed he was a godly man who ate, talked and associated with Jesus. Therefore it would seem probable that after he died the first time, he was assigned a place with the blessed. The Bible doesn't make this explicit, true, but that's not the point of this story.

When you read scripture, you are reading about other's experiences with limited knowledge of what they experienced or went through. We do however, have enough information about these experiences to understand the purpose of the text.

 

[eyes2c]

If salvation is all you want then you can be satisfied.

Salvation is what I have and the Holy Spirit is the seal of that approval.

 

[DorothyMae]

What I see is even after all out talks, you still have no understanding of anything I believe

i see that too, the corinthian church was like that, saved for awhile yet still babes in Christ needed milk not meat. You feed meat to a baby it will get sick. You need to feed them milk.

and one think YOU need to hear and understand, when YOU give them false information, yu are not helping them, yu are hurting them

thats what WE are trying to prevent,

I tell those who want to see God to obey Him. You preach over and over “works won’t save you” as though someone thinks they do.

 

[DorothyMae]

Salvation is what I have and the Holy Spirit is the seal of that approval.

And that’s all you want, I guess. Then all is well.

 

[eyes2c]

And that’s all you want, I guess. Then all is well.

I sense that you are thinking I should be striving for more but you do not know me nor do you know my walk with God. He knows me and he leads and directs my steps. Yes, all is well with my soul...