Not By Works

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BillG said:
If I'm totally honest I don't fully get that.

2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

V12 P2 messes with my head.

V13. Is faithless talking about immature believers?

If so I get this.

Yet V12 I can't get a handle on it. It's sandwiched between V11 & 13
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I think Paul is once again exhorting to finish the race on expectation of reward.

One thing I know the faithlessness of the believer does negate or take away the faithfulness of God.. .. like the father who had been faithful to the prodigal son the whole time.
 
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BillG said:
If I'm totally honest I don't fully get that.

2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

V12 P2 messes with my head.

V13. Is faithless talking about immature believers?

If so I get this.

Yet V12 I can't get a handle on it. It's sandwiched between V11 & 13
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When Peter stepped out on the water he had faith when he began to sink he lost faith.

When Peter claimed he would die with the Lord he had faith, when he began to deny the Lord and cussed he was hiding hia faith.

My view on the denial is clear....when one denies JESUS by a lack of saving faith....Jesus denies them before the Father (I NEVER KNEW YOU)

If one has acknowledged Jesus by saving faith -->I will never leave thee or forsake thee and IF WE BECOME FAITHLESS, he abides faithful because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF.

It utterly amazes me how the bible, like a shot gun has the ability to cover both lost and saved within one context or set of verses on a regular BASIS yet is denied by the salvation losers or self saving faith maintainers in cases such as this.

Such as.....He that believes on the Son is not condemend because he has believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I can deduce two clear truths from this..

Believers are not condemned

Non believers are condemned

Those that deny Christ are denied

Those that believe yet become faithless (possibly at some point and due to numerous circumstances in life) HE ABIDES FAITHUL TO HIS PROMISES because he cannot deny himself!

We must take the bible as a whole book, allow context, verb tense, and established KNOWN TRUTH DICTATE our beliefs....

We cannot say...The bible says JESUS WILL NEVER LEAVE US OR FORSAKE US and then say OH HE WILL LEAVE US AND FORSAKE US IF WE.......!!!

SALVATION losers CONSTANTLY make the bible contradict...not only in context, but also by the very definitions of words and or verbiage!
 
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GandalfTheWhite said:
We can turn away from God if we so choose and He will give us a bill of divorce :) that in my understanding is losing my salvation. Maybe you understand it differently.
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Like I said above....one contradiction after another....So...you believe JESUS WILL FORSAKE US and LEAVE US....YOU must believe eternal means temporary, Gift is a wage, Nothing is something, kept is lost, keep is throw away, finish and complete means not finish or complete, irrevocable is revocable and on and on and on....salvation losers CONSTANTLY CONTRADICT scripture on every turn!
 
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GandalfTheWhite said:
We have the marriage contract (Bible) and you have the lawyer that died on the cross for you my dear sister.

The Torah forbid you to get married again to the same groom after you divorced him. Death is the only thing that can break the curse and Paul also mention it in his letters.

The blood has flown for you and me and we can get remarried to the Groom.

Jesus can always help you out, I know that :)
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Right here is why you miss the mark!!
 
Guojing said:
If you can ignore clear scripture like Genesis 17:14, you cannot be reasoned with too.
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Blah, blah, blah gong show....I don't ignore scripture.....called context, truth and New Covenant which you obviously don't care to understand....just like a Pharisee or a religionist!
 
dcontroversal said:
Like I said, one cannot reason with a Pharisee type religionist.....He is one of the top religionists on this site....simple truth and a factual statement!
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I already explained that Peter rebuked Jesus for telling them he had to die, and denied Christ 3 times during the cruxifiction.

All these are clear evidence that none of the 12 believed Jesus had to die, but they still preached the gospel of the kingdom.

If he doesn't want to address those, but choose to resort to name calling, that's his choice.
 
EleventhHour said:
Just something... so many profiles... one after another.....the latest StillWater...
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She was a flake........I actually tried to engage her nicely if one goes back and reads our first couple interactions.....then she turned into an idiot and I lit her up...bait and switch religionist games.....even now they peddle their wares...!
 
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dcontroversal said:
She was a flake........I actually tried to engage her nicely if one goes back and reads our first couple interactions.....then she turned into an idiot and I lit her up...bait and switch religionist games.....even now they peddle their wares...!
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Most definitely on all counts.. and I do remember when it all started, much like Fran hard to forget ... someone just could not let it go.
 
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Guojing said:
I already explained that Peter rebuked Jesus for telling them he had to die, and denied Christ 3 times during the cruxifiction.

All these are clear evidence that none of the 12 believed Jesus had to die, but they still preached the gospel of the kingdom.

If he doesn't want to address those, but choose to resort to name calling, that's his choice.
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The word is crucifixion and it really happened....it was not FICTION!
 
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