Not By Works

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VCO said:
WHAT YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, WHO WAS DOING THOSE MIRACLES THROUGH THE APOSTLES:

Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.]

James 2:10 (HCSB)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails in one point, is guilty of ⌊breaking it⌋ all.
{Making it impossible for your good works to Save you.}

Just in case you think you are sinless:

1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man
for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for
the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put
to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as
bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
{That would be President Donald Trump, if you are an American.}

View attachment 215981
Exceed the Posted Speed Limit by one mile per hour, you are SINNING and are guilty of breaking all of the LAW with that one sin.
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No one is denying that it was the Holy Spirit doing those signs thru the apostles.

The question is, is he still doing them now thru us?
 
Micaiah-imla said:
Not to the Jews only, but:

Matthew 28:19
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
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Acts 2:5 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
 
Guojing said:
No one is denying that it was the Holy Spirit doing those signs thru the apostles.

The question is, is he still doing them now thru us?
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I have seen several miracles, IN ANSWER TO PRAYER. The so-called Charismatic Experience, in my opinion, are ALL Counterfeits.

Will not even consider to discuss it on this site, nor do I ever want to discuss it on another site YET AGAIN. Been there, DONE THAT, way too many times in the PAST, and it proves to FRUITLESS every time. It only causes those that WANT TO BELIEVE in that foolishness, to SIN, by getting FURIOUS. If you want to discuss it, PLEASE START YOUR OWN THREAD, but you will not See me there.
 
VCO said:
I have seen several miracles, IN ANSWER TO PRAYER. The so-called Charismatic Experience, in my opinion, are ALL Counterfeits.

Will not even consider to discuss it on this site, nor do I ever want to discuss it on another site YET AGAIN. Been there, DONE THAT, way too many times in the PAST, and it proves to FRUITLESS every time. It only causes those that WANT TO BELIEVE in that foolishness, to SIN, by getting FURIOUS. If you want to discuss it, PLEASE START YOUR OWN THREAD, but you will not See me there.
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Yes, miracles can happen, no one is denying that.

I was discussing the issue of signs and wonders to others when you reply to my post. Signs and wonders are not random miracles being performed. Signs and wonders point people to Jesus as the Son of God.

That role has ceased ever since Israel rejected Jesus.
 
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Guojing said:
That may be true, but as we have discussed, the same "signs and wonders" are clearly not present today since you claim it also depends on the faith on the receiver.
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That is WHY you don't see many miracles in the church today.
It has been taught to not believe to receive them.
Nothing happens without faith.

""According to your faith let it be done to you" - Matthew 9:29

That's how it was when Jesus did miracles, that's how it is today.
 
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Lightskin said:
If God gets migraines as a result of human stupidity then He has a doozy now.
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Hebrews 10 explains that Christ's ministry and sacrifice lasts forever and does not need to be repeated. Osas reads that and says that means you will never lost it. I'm not calling that stupid, but it's definitely a failure of logic. That's like saying a 'forever' stamp means it can't come off of the envelope. (You do know what a 'forever' stamp is, right?)
 
Judges1318 said:
Hebrews 10 explains that Christ's ministry and sacrifice lasts forever and does not need to be repeated. Osas reads that and says that means you will never lost it. I'm not calling that stupid, but it's definitely a failure of logic. That's like saying a 'forever' stamp means it can't come off of the envelope. (You do know what a 'forever' stamp is, right?)
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Quit while you’re ahead, judge. Your forever stamp analogy just isn’t cutting it. If it was I would gladly tell you so.
 
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Judges1318 said:
That is WHY you don't see many miracles in the church today.
It has been taught to not believe to receive them.
Nothing happens without faith.

""According to your faith let it be done to you" - Matthew 9:29

That's how it was when Jesus did miracles, that's how it is today.
Click to expand...

How do you think Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead? Was it the faith of Lazarus?
 
Judges1318 said:
Hebrews 10 explains that Christ's ministry and sacrifice lasts forever and does not need to be repeated. Osas reads that and says that means you will never lost it. I'm not calling that stupid, but it's definitely a failure of logic. That's like saying a 'forever' stamp means it can't come off of the envelope. (You do know what a 'forever' stamp is, right?)
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Failure of logic.. :D:D:D
 
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Judges1318 said:
Hebrews 10 explains that Christ's ministry and sacrifice lasts forever and does not need to be repeated. Osas reads that and says that means you will never lost it. I'm not calling that stupid, but it's definitely a failure of logic. That's like saying a 'forever' stamp means it can't come off of the envelope. (You do know what a 'forever' stamp is, right?)
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Hebrews 10 is not even dealing with spiritual salvation... it is dealing with temporal ruin and salvation of the soul.
 
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Guojing said:
How do you think Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead? Was it the faith of Lazarus?
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For obvious reasons Christ did not consult the faith of Lazarus before he raised him from the dead.
Obviously, raising people from the dead in this life is not a matter of the dead person having faith to be raised from the dead.
I'd put that more in the category of a worker of miracles, not someone with the gift of healing or the gift of faith.

"7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, a and to still another the interpretation of tongues. b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines." - 1 Corinthians 12:7-11

And before you ask, no, I do not have the faith to raise a person from the dead. I've never even been in the presence of a dead body since becoming a Christian. But if such an opportunity arises to raise the dead and God instills faith in me, I will raise the dead, just as any other Christian in those circumstances who believes in the gifts and is given the faith to do it will also do. But at this point my sober assessment of the matter is I do not think I possess that gift.

"Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. 4For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your a faith; 7if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, b do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully." - Romans 12:3-8
 
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Guojing said:
Yes, miracles can happen, no one is denying that.

I was discussing the issue of signs and wonders to others when you reply to my post. Signs and wonders are not random miracles being performed. Signs and wonders point people to Jesus as the Son of God.

That role has ceased ever since Israel rejected Jesus.
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AMEN.

I repeat that I DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS THIS HEAR or ANY WHERE.

I will answer that ONE QUESTION, only; because you are slightly Wrong about the purpose for Signs and Wonders.

It is NOT the Signs and Wonders that POINT people to CHRIST, it is THE HOLY SPIRIT BLESSING THE WORD OF GOD TAUGHT.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.


The PURPOSE for Signs and Wonders was NEVER to point people to CHRIST. It was to confirm the NEW TESTAMENT was Equally GOD's WORD to the JEWS, as the Old Testament.

1 Corinthians 1:22-25 (KJV)
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


IT REMOVED THEIR LAST EXCUSE FOR NOT BELIEVING THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS ALSO GOD'S WORD. MOST OF THEM STILL DID NOT BELIEVE CHRIST WAS THEIR MESSIAH!


Mark 16:20 (NIV)
20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and
confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.


There is your SOLE Purpose for Signs and Wonders.

You man be interested in an a study, I did originally in the Late 80's, penned by a hand written Bible Study, then updated it will more info, in the early 90's, after I got a computer in 1995, about a year after that, revised it to fit the Format of Bible-Discussion,com, and in March of 2019, after Bible-Discussion, closed their site, I reposted it HERE. It had to be posted in NINE Segments, because it was a rather lengthy Study. If you read some of the rebuttals I have received, YOU WILL FIND OUT it causes the Charismatics, to get VERY ANGRY, so I choose now, not to respond to that Thread. https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/a-non-charismatic-understanding-of-tongues.184020/
Enjoy the Truth!
 
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