No need for hospitals visits, just heal covid-19 by faith would be good enough proof for most of us
Yes, maybe spit at it like Kenneth Copeland.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Yes, maybe spit at it like Kenneth Copeland.
You show that you are terribly uneducated about the gifts.
And you have your own doctrinal beliefs to blame for that.
Yes, the church should be healing everybody everywhere just like Jesus did, right?No need for hospitals visits, just heal covid-19 by faith would be good enough proof for most of us
Do not consult Kenneth Copeland to learn anything about the supernatural. I mean God's supernatural.Yes, maybe spit at it like Kenneth Copeland.
I can see the common osas bias in your post.
Saved does not mean, by definition, not able to be unsaved.
Osas people look at the Bible through this osas bias.
Did he command his disciples to do the same? Hmmmm, something must have changed.
...so said Herod.No need for hospitals visits, just heal covid-19 by faith would be good enough proof for most of us
Luke 23:8-10
If you’re drowning 100 feet below the surface of the ocean and someone gets you a line to pull you up, you aren’t saved during the process of being pulled up because you’re still under water. You’re only saved once you’re out of the water and able to breathe air. By your definition, you’re not yet saved.
That's not an accurate analogy of salvation.
I'm already in the lifeboat heading for shore.
I still have the choice to leave the safety of the boat and become lost in the water again.
Nobody's stopping me from doing that, but I am being strongly encouraged not to do that because the boat is sure and the land I'm heading to is forever safe and secure and abundant.
"23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful." - Hebrews 10:23
Unfortunately for you it’s a perfect analogy. But I digress, keep saving yourself.
WRONG, I used to be a scuba diver, and One Breath at 100 feet will last you all the way to the surface and you will be exhaling (blowing bubbles) all the way up, and even have to finish exhaling as you reach the surface. In the Scuba Class that is know as the 100 foot Check Out Dive.
In SALVATION, it happens in an INSTANT, the Moment the Holy Spirit come into your HEART (Human Spirit), and POURS GOD's LOVE into you heart.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
Ephesians 4:30 (NKJV)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God,
by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
{There is a major OSAS VERSE!}
Ephesians 1:13-14 (HCSB)
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.
Romans 11:29 (HCSB)
29 since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.
Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.
1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.
2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
You do not KNOW the FIRST THING ABOUT HOW GOD SAVES A HUMAN BEING, DO YOU ? ? ? Or as I used to say during my farm boy days, "You do not understand a hill of beans, about how GOD SAVES a Man."
The problem I see among the werkers is taking Hebrews out of it's 1st century context and the writers comparison with the 1st Exodus.
(Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.)
(Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways)
Notice the 40 years - Hebrews is using the same "saw my works" motif and applying it to the 40 years of powers, signs and wonders during the apostolic period, those powers, signs and wonders lasted around 40 years ending with the war of 66-70 AD with the destruction of the temple and the sack of Jerusalem;
(Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him)
(Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?)
The generation he's speaking to had possibly an even greater evidence/witness than the Exodus generation. After the 1st century those "signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost" ceased.
Therefore to apply the conditions of Hebrews to any generation after that 1st century one is an anachronism.
The 40 year period is known as the second Exodus and note that the letter is known as the letter to the Hebrews.
(Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.)
(Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways)
Notice the 40 years - Hebrews is using the same "saw my works" motif and applying it to the 40 years of powers, signs and wonders during the apostolic period, those powers, signs and wonders lasted around 40 years ending with the war of 66-70 AD with the destruction of the temple and the sack of Jerusalem;
(Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him)
(Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?)
The generation he's speaking to had possibly an even greater evidence/witness than the Exodus generation. After the 1st century those "signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost" ceased.
Therefore to apply the conditions of Hebrews to any generation after that 1st century one is an anachronism.
The 40 year period is known as the second Exodus and note that the letter is known as the letter to the Hebrews.
Seriously, guy, continuing to believe is not a self righteous work of the works gospel.
But, again, if anybody has chapter and verse that says it is I'm all ears.
Continuing to believe in order to maintain your salvation goes against the entire essence of the Gospel. Either Jesus saved you, past tense, and are forever saved, or you are not saved.
That's your osas bias talking.
It doesn't let you see that you can indeed be saved and it not have to mean 'irreversibly saved'.
In your mind 'saved' can only mean 'not able to be unsaved'.
You are literally defining 'saved' as 'always and forever saved no matter what' and you think there is absolutely no other possible way to define it.
That's a doctrinal bias.
It colors everything you read in the Bible.
You have to have the courage to let yourself see other legitimate views of scripture.
When I started doing that, instead of instantly rejecting anything that didn't agree with what I decided beforehand was the truth, I started to learn a lot of things.
And not just truths about doctrines, but truths about people and human nature.
It helped me to be more compassionate towards others instead of always stomping around in an angry, threatening, dogmatic, closed off, doctrinal rage, like some people here, and then justifying it in the name of 'truth'.
After all, isn't that what really counts, much more than the correctness of our doctrinal beliefs--how we view and treat other people? The answer is, 'yes', of course.
Chapter and verse would go a long way to proving your point.
I posted the verses that tell us to keep believing, and why, which obviously shows us that doing that is not you working to maintain your salvation in a works gospel.
Your lungs will burst, if you DO NOT EXHALE ALL THE WAY UP. The air in your lungs EXPANDS a you come up from 100 feet down. At surface Pressure the Atmosphere pushes down about 14.5 pounds per square inch. At 100 feet down, the air pressure is 4 times a much as Surface Pressure. Every 33 Feet you go down in water, is one more Atmosphere of Pressure. You can die if you HOLD your breath coming up from 100 feet, and do not EXHALE. Watching your expressions, cocky attitude, so I would guess you are TEENAGER? Am I right?
Does this verse MEAN anything to you, since I am 71 years of age.
1 Timothy 5:1 (NIV)
1 Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers,