We don't attempt to prove incorrect verses 8-9...the problem is with OSAS's interpretation of verse 10...that the "good works" for which we have been "created in Christ Jesus" are optional.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Read verse 17, lol. Joshua and Caleb made it, the rest, their bodies fell in the desert. Learn to rightly divide the word.
Who it is that's claiming Christian Origination is in any other except God alone? The argument is not about Christian Origination, but Christian Obligation. Conditional Salvationalists know good works are the unavoidable consequence of a sinner that's converted to a saint. OSAS defends presumptuous sin by arguing that salvation is a license to commit capital crime without fear of capital punishment.
What part of irrevocable is revocable to you?
So you fell off the fence, broke ya ankle and now werking around on crutches - good one
So when God says His gifts are irrevocable we are to believe phoneyman who states God is a liar in that His gifts are indeed revocable. Interesting.
Yet with zero NT Scripture to back it up. Basically what you're saying is Christ will leave us and forsake us, and, that we should tremble in trepidation because just whenever he wants, he can do it.
What a schizophrenic unbiblical "gospel" it is that you preach.
What is it you think Paul gave him? Works? Effort? A promise to never fail? Nope. He entrusted his eternal future and this was guarded by Christ. Note John 10:27ff.
What Paul said actually establishes eternal security/OSAS/Perseverence of the Saints, because in his wording right there it is all Christ. yet you're using it to say that isn't true.
You should get a new hobby, theology and biblically contextual understandings aren't your forte.
E
Exactly why you miss the mark...idiotic comparisons like this that places the emphasis upon Us and what we do as opposed to what HE DOES....
Biblical Logical Progression versus OSAS Illogical Perversion
"The just shall live by faith, and if any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him."
"For without faith it is impossible to please God."
"Whatsoever is without faith is sin."
"...whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness."
Biblically speaking....ANYONE that states the GIFT of salvation can be taken back, forfeit or lost, have proven they are absolutely ignorant of the truth. They constantly conflate numerous truths, misapply truth and reject truth on a regular basis.....they also deny word definitions and verb tense.....rather sickening to be honest......!!
Nice insult, pal. Anyway, are we to believe Lightskin's claim that God's promises belong to apostates as well as the saints who endure to the end?
Leftist Criminal Rights advocates are all the same...putting the selfish interests of those who despise the law ahead of those of the law abiding public. The only difference is that the leftists advocates in church hide their own sins with a garment of religious dignity.
You need to get a new vocation.
You're not polite and gentle as a shepherd should be.
You're way too edgy for a pastor.
Do you act like this in your church?
Haven't you heard? The people who claim to have a corner on the market of "love and compassion" hide their razor sharp fangs, claws, and horns under a soft exterior of collective mentality.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
How many times do you have to post that you are working at "saving" yourself?
We all know this...no one doubts it.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
Oh please... like you are Mr. Nice Guy
We have the old testament to show us without doubt that the Spirit can leave a person, or a thing, just as easily as He came in, and anytime He wants. Surely you familiar with Ezekiel 10?
"Then the glory of the Lord departed from over the threshold of the temple" - Ezekiel 10:18
And in the New Testament, osas has decided that the word 'sealed' means 'unable to be unsealed'. Of course it has to do that to defend it's assertion that the Holy Spirit can't leave His place of residence. God can lift His seal of ownership anytime He wants to just like He did in the temple in the old covenant.
Yes, He will leave and forsake you, if you leave and forsake him...
"the Lord your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." - Deuteronomy 31:6
"17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. " - Deuteronomy 31:17
It's interesting how the second part of the promise always gets conveniently left off by osas. And if you want to use the tired out argument 'that's the old testament', Paul says the same thing:
"If we disown him, he will also disown us" - 2 Timothy 2:12
(Remember, stay true to your Calvinist osas when answering.)
He has told us what will cause Him to do that.
You only need tremble in trepidation if you do what He says will cause Him to leave you.
If you keep believing you need not fear and tremble anymore than you do about crossing the center line when driving on the road.
Do you characterize your fear of crossing the center line into oncoming traffic as schizophrenic? Then neither should the devout believer about staying on this side of the dividing line between belief and unbelief. A good healthy fear of doing that is sufficient. And that is what Paul tells us to have in Romans 11.
You need not challenge me about some presumed argument about works salvation.
I was challenging the osas teaching that says the necessity to continue believing is us trying to earn our salvation.
Which I know you agree with but what you will be curiously silent about.
No, I'm not saying that.
Continued believing does that.
I'm not a works salvationist.
Just because I don't buy into the osas argument doesn't mean I think justification and salvation is earned on the merit of righteous work.
He's been a stand up Christian this whole time.
How you can't see that is amazing.
Allowing future generations to still have God's gifts and calling, despite their rejection of their Messiah, is hardly the equivalent of a believer never being able to lose his calling and gifts.
How many dead Israelites residing in hell today would agree with you that God's gifts and calling being irrevocable means what you say it means? Obviously, they show us that doesn't mean what osas says it means.
Even when called out for being juvenile, baby Christians continue to act like the immature believers that they are.
They keep proving the accusations of being babies in Christ leveled against them by continuing to act like babies in Christ.
That's been a curious thing about this forum.