Same way the nation of Israel was cut off...rejecting the gospel. Individual Jews were not cut off, but the nation as a whole was blinded because of unbelief.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Same way the nation of Israel was cut off...rejecting the gospel. Individual Jews were not cut off, but the nation as a whole was blinded because of unbelief.
in re: the debt of the wicked servant having been forgiven:
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
(2 Corinthians 5:19)
we've still got this. to deal with. the whole world has reconciliation to God through Christ, the whole world not having their debt imputed to them.
so the ungrateful man in Matthew 18 has his debt forgiven. he hears the good news. he does not take it to heart or put it into practice.
does this make him a part of the unbelieving world - who does have reconciliation and forgiveness, but who rejects it? or make him a believer?
your premise is that he represents one of Christ's sheep, because he has had his debt canceled. but Christ atoned for all the sin of the world - so we have to deal with limited vs. universal atonement. we've got to deal with tasting death for every man vs. bearing the sins of many.
i agree, what kind of logic is that! the gospel turns human reasoning on its head.
but the facts are that this is what Jesus says the man said: have patience, i will pay it all back.
he didn't ask for the debt to be erased. he asked for time to pay it himself.
the master took pity on him, and offered full reconciliation 'because he pleaded' -- but when we go look at the record that God gives us of his pleading, it doesn't include having his debt forgiven, at all.
now, you can say Jesus gave a deceptively incomplete account of what this man actually begged for. in Jesus' own parable.
i am not going to say that. i am going to say, Jesus spoke this perfectly. and being perfect, the details are significant.
you can keep trying to make verse 32 say he asked for forgiveness, but i'm going to keep pointing at vv. 26-27 and telling you, he did not; the Master gave him something far more precious than what he asked. yes he begged the master. no he didn't beg for forgiveness. he begged for time. he begged for a prolonged opportunity to achieve reconciliation of his debt all by himself.
whether he was really planning to do that, whether he really thought he'd come up with 20 billion by shaking down hundreds of millions of other servants for $150 at a time, is another question -- i'm going to say no, he plotted to escape his lord, to murder his lord, to usurp his place.
not unlike Israel, hoping the Messiah would usher in an earthly kingdom. but the Messiah brought a spiritual kingdom, of far more worth than what the Jews were looking for. a spiritual kingdom they rejected.
and not unlike Judas, being an apostle, having the destiny to deliver over the Son of Man to death. Jesus knew this from the beginning, and chose him. do you think Judas is an example of receiving salvation and losing it? a true sheep turning into a goat?
You need to read your post again. However, makes no difference to me because you still have the choice to stay or leave. But do not place everyone on here into a lump. I have no desire for you to "run away" as that would be your own personal choice. Just don't place everyone into the same basket.
Of course God's foundation stands sure, you know, like His gift of Eternal salvation. Praise the Lord we don't have to do anything to "keep that salvation."
Guess you missed that part about "...in Christ's power..." huh?
I finally figured it out...You OSAS folks think salvation grants divine status...that we become Omnipresent, right?
OSAS essentially says I can simultaneously walk further and further away from God while remaining safe and secure in the palm of His hand.
You slander people with such as the above. OSAS represents one thing: Accepting Christ Jesus as Our Lord and Savior and by that act we receive the gift of God through the Blood of Jesus which gives us eternal salvation and the Seal of the Holy Spirit. You add words to what we believe and twist them to suit your agenda. No where does any believer in the one and only act of eternal salvation believe the words you say. BTW, do you ever examine your own mind and heart? You know like: Love thy neighbor as thyself, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, Judge not, least you be judged.
Unbelief would mean no salvation. One has to believe in order to become saved. Can't accept Christ without belief.
I think the point of the wicked servant is Jesus is using the parable in a analogous form to explain this:
(Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses)
Our "debt" to God is great, but if we don't forgive the small "debt" that our brothers ask to be "released" from then....
No need to over examine it.
(Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses)
Our "debt" to God is great, but if we don't forgive the small "debt" that our brothers ask to be "released" from then....
No need to over examine it.
More blathering. Come on man, I thought you were genuine with regards to understanding we are saved by grace through faith.Guess you missed that part about "...in Christ's power..." huh?
I finally figured it out...You OSAS folks think salvation grants divine status...that we become Omnipresent, right?
OSAS essentially says I can simultaneously walk further and further away from God while remaining safe and secure in the palm of His hand.
His argument is if someone believes in Jesus at one point in their life then no longer believes, they lose their salvation. Thus it’s better to only share the Gospel with folks on their deathbed or everyone should commit suicide upon having faith in Jesus so as to eliminate the possibility of outliving you’re faith in Him. Oh yeah, don’t forget works.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Funny and true ........ I can see it now that bat smacking right into a tree.
The "workers for salvation" do the same.
He preaches a false doctrine. Wonder what he'll say to Christ about "oophs, I didn't hold onto the salvation you gave me as a free gift."
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EleventhHour
Guest
The law of Christ is not your adversary and form part of the true gospel. If you don't see it, you are reading it wrong.
God bless
Not sure what you mean by the law of Christ.
I think his heart is in the right place in that he honors Jesus, but sadly he has things twisted. He puts too much “self” into salvation.
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EleventhHour
Guest
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EleventhHour
Guest
Oh really, sometimes fire is just fire.
He does not state or make a clear connection to the Lake of Fire... you add to the text.
Do you think Jesus is so unclear and imprecise with His words.
No.
The thing is, I didn't put anybody in a basket. I said we are all guilty of over reacting sometime.
For some people the trigger word is grace, for other it is law
God bless
But he's warning believers who stand by faith that this will happen to them if they do not continue in God's kindness. If it means what you say it means then he should be addressing unbelievers, not believers. But as it is, the warning is to the believers who stand by faith and that they will be cut out of the tree if they do not continue in the grace of God's kindness.
I know this will get me in hot water again....
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
The law is about Christ, and is a shadow of things to come. So in my view Moses wrote the law as received from God.
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EleventhHour
Guest
I still do not understand ... are you referring to the 613 laws?
Are you stating we are under those laws?