Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

sigh..

Frustrating isn't it. when you think people are not listening to you. or do not seem to get it. Just remember, The same people your sighing to could feel the same about you.

Its better to just show what you see, and go from there. then try to make these remarks..

See? Got it from the Bible, all of it.

I wrote Bible to you, and showed where I got it. all of it.

Have you listened to me, or others who have done the same thing?

Sadly we have many in here who make remarks that can just as easily be used against them, they are really not helpful. Lets try to steer clear of these. ok?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He stated a while back on the thread he was raised Baptist and is now SDA

Not sure what type of Baptist though?

ok, Thank you, now i understand what you meant.

 

[walknlight]

.. just plain common sense!!

.....Not really.

(1Co 2:13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(1Co 2:14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

God Bless...

 

[CherieR]

Bema, is a raised throne, where the judge pronounces judgment, It is seen normally in places like the Olympic games, where they judge rewards athletes for how well they performed,, When paul uses the term judgment seat in rom 14. he is speaking to believers, not unbelievers,

Krinos is a a legal term of a judge who passes judgment on criminals, He not only announces if they are guilty or innocent, he pronounces judgment on the person who is found guilty.

again remember, who is at the final judgement?

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Also remember, According to scripture. True believers, although thty may be physically dead, Are still called alive in Christ, they were just sleeping, not realy dead, to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord as Paul said.

Thank you.

 

[PennEd]

sigh..OK, here are the verses:
The Here and Now
"If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church."
The Hereafter
"For we must all stand before the Judgment seat of Christ
"For God will bring every work into Judgment, with ever secret thing, whether it be good or evil."
"Know ye not that we shall judge angels?"

See? Got it from the Bible, all of it.

You need to read and understand 1 Corinthians 3.

EVERYONE in the body has the foundation of Christ. Many will apparently only have that foundation and suffer loss at the judgement seat of Christ, as a result of what they did, or didn’t do, in the body. What that loss means is anybody’s guess. BUT, even those suffering loss will be saved, BECAUSE they have the foundation, which is Jesus.

There will be others that have sent their treasures ahead, storing them up, through good works in the body. They have more than just the foundation.

Others will be the least in the Kingdom. But they WILL be in the Kingdom.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you.

Your very welcome

 

[mailmandan]

You need to read and understand 1 Corinthians 3.

EVERYONE in the body has the foundation of Christ. Many will apparently only have that foundation and suffer loss at the judgement seat of Christ, as a result of what they did, or didn’t do, in the body. What that loss means is anybody’s guess. BUT, even those suffering loss will be saved, BECAUSE they have the foundation, which is Jesus.

There will be others that have sent their treasures ahead, storing them up, through good works in the body. They have more than just the foundation.

Others will be the least in the Kingdom. But they WILL be in the Kingdom.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than nthat which is laid, owhich is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day pwill declare it, because qit will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire (as one escaping through the flames)

 

[Phoneman-777]

Only one consistent Gospel.

Saved is saved

You're right! (but only half right)

 

[Phoneman-777]

Again you add to the text..... really wrong how yo do that.
Death there is not refering to eternal damnation.

You really should go back the Baptist church I really cannot believe how you exegete scripture .. just plain common sense!!

What did I add? Does not "sin unto death" refer to eternal death?

 

[Bbrdrd]

You’re saying loving and forgiving people is work? Under certain circumstances, no doubt, but as an overall lifestyle, not at all. And it seems as though you’re equating work with sin in your last sentence. Don’t be so defensive.

It is a work that demonstrates salvation. Love and forgiveness absolutely takes practice and effort, it takes letting go of demands for rights and accepting mistreatment occasionally. If it didn't, if it wasn't something we had to learn, then we would have no use of the Holy Spirit. The last sentence was more general since the claim is often that if we recognize God's demand for righteousness we're not walking in grace and somehow think ourselves sinless. it seems to me that the attitude that these things come naturally is more one of sinlessness than recognizing that we must walk after the Spirit in order to learn His ways.

 

[Phoneman-777]

so paul contradicts John?

1 John 2: 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

1 John 3: 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Paul and John are saying the same thing: your works prove whether you are surrendered to God. Neither of them is saying God holds a saint hostage who wishes to return to the old life of sin.

Trusting the pilot to get you down doesn't eliminate the option to just jump out the plane.

 

[Bbrdrd]

God is Love, and Jesus is God, thus Jesus is love. And yet Jesus, with adamant passion, denounced the Pharisees for always shutting out the Kingdom of Heaven against others.

How is it you proclaim Jesus as Lord and Savior yet pigeonhole the very grace He affords to everyone who has faith in Him?

I don't pigeon-hole grace, I establish it. Jesus came first to forgive our sins and judge sin, when He returns He will judge between the righteous and the wicked. He was abundantly clear that there are wheat and tares, righteous and wicked, and that they will grow up together until the very end when the tares will be burnt. This is not a "shape up or ship out" this is a "repent and believe the gospel." Which is not that all will be accepted, but that justice will be received. We will be judged on our works, good or bad.

 

[Phoneman-777]

yep I see it

Christians will stand at the judgment (bema) seat of Christ

The word is "before" which is "in front of" the Judge - who stands in front of the Judge? DEFENDANTS

WE shall judge angels should be one clue to you that these are believers, Not unbelievers

Yes, when "the rest of the dead (wicked) lived not again until the thousand years were finished" and these wicked come up in the Resurrection of the Damned, that is when the saints will stand with Christ and judge them.

The cases of the saints will have been decided 1,000 years earlier before Christ comes, for "judgement must first begin at the house of God".

 

[EleventhHour]

What did I add? Does not "sin unto death" refer to eternal death?

No

How can sin lead unto to death be hell or damnation for the believer when all sin was paid for at the cross?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Frustrating isn't it. when you think people are not listening to you. or do not seem to get it. Just remember, The same people your sighing to could feel the same about you.

Its better to just show what you see, and go from there. then try to make these remarks..


I wrote Bible to you, and showed where I got it. all of it.

Have you listened to me, or others who have done the same thing?

Sadly we have many in here who make remarks that can just as easily be used against them, they are really not helpful. Lets try to steer clear of these. ok?

What I see is in here are OSAS folks who either ignore or totally distort that which flatly proves them wrong.

Like how Jesus says "and because iniquity shall abound, the love ("agape" of the saints) of many shall wax cold (spiritual death of those saints), but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved."

What a monument to error it is to totally distort this verse to make "the same shall be saved" mean "not assume room temperature". It's talking about spiritual salvation, of which those saints who fail to endure to the end will have no part.

 

[PennEd]

The word is "before" which is "in front of" the Judge - who stands in front of the Judge? DEFENDANTS
Yes, when "the rest of the dead (wicked) lived not again until the thousand years were finished" and these wicked come up in the Resurrection of the Damned, that is when the saints will stand with Christ and judge them.

The cases of the saints will have been decided 1,000 years earlier before Christ comes, for "judgement must first begin at the house of God".

This post explains why people like this have to delude themselves into thinking they are presumptuous sin ( and they use whatever definition works for them) perfectionists.

This man is truly in essence relying on his efforts and works to stand before God on judgement day. He understands that the penalty for sin is death, but he doesn’t understand the Gospel. That Jesus paid the debt he owed for his sin on the cross.

I know I was messing with him yesterday, but this spiritual discernment is horribly sad.

He thinks his sins aren’t completely paid for by Jesus, and therefore has deluded himself into thinking he doesn’t sin.

 

[Lightskin]

It is a work that demonstrates salvation. Love and forgiveness absolutely takes practice and effort, it takes letting go of demands for rights and accepting mistreatment occasionally. If it didn't, if it wasn't something we had to learn, then we would have no use of the Holy Spirit. The last sentence was more general since the claim is often that if we recognize God's demand for righteousness we're not walking in grace and somehow think ourselves sinless. it seems to me that the attitude that these things come naturally is more one of sinlessness than recognizing that we must walk after the Spirit in order to learn His ways.

What you’re describing are fruits of the Spirit; they’re exactly that ~ fruits, not works. On another note, once you get to know me you will understand that I never have nor ever will proclaim myself sinless, past, present or future.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul and John are saying the same thing: your works prove whether you are surrendered to God.

Um no, John said someone who lives in sin has never met God

Your claiming that a person can sin themselves out of salvation, meaning they knew God at one time, and then lost it.

Neither of them is saying God holds a saint hostage who wishes to return to the old life of sin.

John said a saint can not return to a life of sin, I suggest you listen to him, and not make up stuff that was never said

There is a reason they can not return to a life of sin, John gave that reason. they have been born of God.

why would john say this if it were not true?

Trusting the pilot to get you down doesn't eliminate the option to just jump out the plane.

if you jump out. that must mean you did not trust the pilot now did you? You found out the plane ride was not what you expected so you jumped ship. Like many people do who TRY out Christianity before they actually receive the written word in their hearts and call out..

 

[Lightskin]

I don't pigeon-hole grace, I establish it. Jesus came first to forgive our sins and judge sin, when He returns He will judge between the righteous and the wicked. He was abundantly clear that there are wheat and tares, righteous and wicked, and that they will grow up together until the very end when the tares will be burnt. This is not a "shape up or ship out" this is a "repent and believe the gospel." Which is not that all will be accepted, but that justice will be received. We will be judged on our works, good or bad.

Scripture is quite clear time and again that we are saved by grace through faith. Now I understand our differences; you are a works salvationist; I proclaim the fullness of Jesus’ works, and our salvation is made complete by Him, and Him alone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The word is "before" which is "in front of" the Judge - who stands in front of the Judge? DEFENDANTS

So athletes who stand before the judge to recieve the rward at the bema seat are defendents?

Ok. I do not know where you got your information from. But you missing a huge point about the type of judgment that is happening

Yes, when "the rest of the dead (wicked) lived not again until the thousand years were finished" and these wicked come up in the Resurrection of the Damned, that is when the saints will stand with Christ and judge them.

The cases of the saints will have been decided 1,000 years earlier before Christ comes, for "judgement must first begin at the house of God".

Um no saint will be present at the great white throne judgment

You appear to be rejecting the cross and the atonement for which it paid.

Why would you go back to the law WHich will NEVER SAVE YOU? and reject the sacrifice, which was done once and is the ONLY means of salvation?