Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

I see this Room has not changed much, I doubt God is very happy when he looks in here,

 

[Lightskin]

Right, oh wise one so learned in the ways of God. You say "works" and it seems you're using it in a specific way. But living peaceably is a work, it is a piece of obedience. We must eat His flesh and drink His blood if we are to be His. Food does no good unless it is ingested.

It’s easy to see why you’re unable to live peaceably with others without works.

 

[blue_ladybug]

@EleventhHour they should stop tempting you to touch your face; it's inconsiderate of them.


View attachment 214070

Same goes for my siggy kitty.. LOL

 

[preacher4truth]

I see this Room has not changed much, I doubt God is very happy when he looks in here,

Many of your posts fit the bill as well. As many as you've contributed, well above many others in number, they're at least in the top five.

 

[Bbrdrd]

It’s easy to see why you’re unable to live peaceably with others without works.

I live peaceably with others just fine. But you're presenting a false dichotomy with your use of the word "works". As I said, living peaceably is a work. Let me give you an example, let's say you've got some leftovers in the fridge. You've been looking forward to them all day and it's been a rough one. You get home, all amped up to eat those leftovers only to discover someone else has gotten to them and eaten them. Now, are you without effort going to be able to accept this injustice and move on or are you going to confront the food thief for infringing on your rights? Perhaps you'll react passive aggressively, not confronting them directly but instead waiting until they leave some choice leftovers to turn the tables on them?

 

[EleventhHour]

Actually with GES it is embraced. No antinomian believes they're antinomian. Both camps preach one can live however they want after "salvation" and still expect eternal life, that it only effects rewards. Nope. Ones life confirms or denies true conversion; 2 Corinthians 3:18ff; 1 John; Jude; 2 Peter all describe false conversions compared to true.

Statements of faith only go so far, and are generally undone when the teaching begins. GES has a video where it officially states what I've shown. Proponents of DTS's FGT teach the same things.

I have never in all my life of churches, books, videos, bible studies etc., etc., heard a pastor state now that you are saved you can go sin all you want, God is okay with it and your life will be great...

This would be the sermon I guess......

"If you feel really angry and want to kill someone go for it, and you know God will not care if you steal that expensive pretty dress.

Also feel free to go after that married guy you can have him too just be discrete, if you need to lie to your coworkers it is all good...this

is no time to deny yourself being a little vindictive can be good for the soul, guess what folks we are saved it is open season with sin."

But if you say so... not something I believe I know that much.

 

[Phoneman-777]

There’s usually a little blame on both sides of the aisle regarding insults and misunderstandings, yet it’s fair to say the scales dip lower towards you on this one. On another note, thanks for your service

You're welcome. But there's no need to speculate..you can read the dang thread yourself. Better yet, here's the synopsis:
1) Dude asked me a question
2) I asked for clarification in order to answer it
3) I go back to talking OSAS with others
4) Next thing I know, he launches an attack salvo of insults about me being to much of a coward to answer
5) He keeps up his rule violating attacks
6) I finally tell him I ain't gonna dialogue b/c I don't want my IQ to drop and I'm practicing Proverbs 26:4
Reporting him not an option - no good to risk a ban on anyone that so desperately needs the love of Jesus, right?
7) He then has the audacity to report another opponent of his OSAS ideas for "rules" violation
8) I call him out for his blatant hypocrisy by asking him how the flip is his attacks against me not a violation of the same?

Somebody said I was crying victim....of a keyboard warrior? LOL I just want the record straight. Still think the scales are dippin my way?

 

[EleventhHour]

that so desperately needs the love of Jesus, right?

Funny, ... I am sure @PennEd is rightly centered on the love of Jesus.

 

[preacher4truth]

I have never in all my life of churches, books, videos, bible studies etc., etc., heard a pastor state now that you are saved you can go sin all you want, God is okay with it and your life will be great...

This would be the sermon I guess......

"If you feel really angry and want to kill someone go for it, and you know God will not care if you steal that expensive pretty dress.

Also feel free to go after that married guy you can have him too just be discrete, if you need to lie to your coworkers it is all good...this

is no time to deny yourself being a little vindictive can be good for the soul, guess what folks we are saved it is open season with sin."

But if you say so... not something I believe I know that much.

I get your analogies, but it is more subtle than that, but not by much. Do some investigating. Look for Zane Hodges teachings, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Charles Stanley (and don't let the big name dictate premature disbelief one could ever teach such a thing) and FGT proponents. You may also look for a video by GES that preaches antinomianism, that is, no matter what you do after "salvation" you're "going to heaven."

 

[EleventhHour]

I get your analogies, but it is more subtle than that, but not by much. Do some investigating. Look for Zane Hodges teachings, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Charles Stanley (and don't let the big name dictate premature disbelief one could ever teach such a thing) and FGT proponents. You may also look for a video by GES that preaches antinomianism, that is, no matter what you do after "salvation" you're "going to heaven."

no matter what you do after "salvation" you're "going to heaven.

See I get what you are stating for sure... I think in reassuring people that salvation is secure we must always embed teaching the fact sin will have dire consequences and it not what God desires of us and we are called to live out our holy status... so both messages need to go together.

What bothers me is when @Judges1318 and @Phoneman-777 are equating secure salvation/OSAS with license to sin.
As if the two go hand in hand .. they do not.

 

[preacher4truth]

no matter what you do after "salvation" you're "going to heaven.

See I get what you are stating for sure... I think in reassuring people that salvation is secure we must always embed teaching the fact sin will have dire consequences and it not what God desires of us and we are called to live out our holy status... so both messages need to go together.

What bothers me is when @Judges1318 and @Phoneman-777 are equating secure salvation/OSAS with license to sin.
As if the two go hand in hand .. they do not.

Agreed, yet their concerns aren't unwarranted, many unfortunately help facilitate their concern. Nonetheless those truly saved are saved eternally.

 

[posthuman]

No, I did not mean it that way.
God knew the outcome in advance and told Peter, and then Peter said "I would never!" Then swallowed his words. It was more embarassing because Peter didn't acknowledge he had weakness too. God didn't cause Peter to sin but he forethought the events. Maybe prompted people to ask Peter questions.

yes
knowledge isn't causation - and in this instance Satan had desired to sift Simon like wheat. what we are looking at in him is chaff being removed; threshing. the kernel of his faith endured, tho he stumbled and fell even three times.

what are we seeing here?
would the God Of Our Salvation have given Satan the go-ahead knowing that Simon would be damned by his 'works' and lose his salvation, in hopes that he might repent & return to Him, maybe?
or would the LORD Mighty To Save have given the Evil One permission because He knows He hold Simon's soul under His wing, no matter how he might stumble?

 

[posthuman]

What bothers me is when @Judges1318 and @Phoneman-777 are equating secure salvation/OSAS with license to sin.
As if the two go hand in hand .. they do not.

ain't no new kind of story


one thing has been made clear by the last 6,500 pages --
that a person would seek righteousness and turn away from evil for any reason other than fearing damnation is to many people, something "beyond belief"

__________________________________________________________

 

[Lightskin]

As I said, living peaceably is a work.

As I said, it’s easy to see why living peaceably requires work for you. Doesn’t make you good, bad or indifferent. It simply is.

 

[EleventhHour]

ain't no new kind of story


one thing has been made clear by the last 6,500 pages --
that a person would seek righteousness and turn away from evil for any reason other than fearing damnation is to many people, something "beyond belief"

__________________________________________________________

So true!

 

[Lightskin]

You're welcome. But there's no need to speculate..you can read the dang thread yourself. Better yet, here's the synopsis:
1) Dude asked me a question
2) I asked for clarification in order to answer it
3) I go back to talking OSAS with others
4) Next thing I know, he launches an attack salvo of insults about me being to much of a coward to answer
5) He keeps up his rule violating attacks
6) I finally tell him I ain't gonna dialogue b/c I don't want my IQ to drop and I'm practicing Proverbs 26:4
Reporting him not an option - no good to risk a ban on anyone that so desperately needs the love of Jesus, right?
7) He then has the audacity to report another opponent of his OSAS ideas for "rules" violation
8) I call him out for his blatant hypocrisy by asking him how the flip is his attacks against me not a violation of the same?

Somebody said I was crying victim....of a keyboard warrior? LOL I just want the record straight. Still think the scales are dippin my way?

Yes. Your flippant attitude does indeed tip the scales. When you draw the ire of a real gentleman such as PennEd, all the while engaging in snarky conversations with others, the onus falls on you.

It’s fine by me; I’m the king of sarcasm, on screen and in person. I rejoice with with everyone who wants to rejoice, teach and learn from whoever wants to teach and learn, and I shake the dust off my feet when necessary. For me it’s just another day in the office. Personally, I’m glad you’re here and look forward to future conversations regarding God.

 

[azamzimtoti]

What abart the workers mate.

Workers Unite.

 

[PennEd]

Amen, it's whether we strive against them which determines if we're a Just Man or have degenerated into a lost presumptuous hypocrite.

Hey haaay! My "intelligent" brawny friend has unwittingly answered my question!! Bravo Phoneman!

He has agreed that hypocrisy IS indeed a presumptive sin. So our sinless perfectionist claims wants to slice and dice sin into neat little packages, and say that these sins over here are paid for, but those sins over there are not covered by the Blood of Christ.
So I am guessing he also believes that PETER has lost his Salvation. Ya know, the same Peter that traveled with Jesus, and wrote 1 and 2 Peter. Peter ABSOLUTELY committed the presumptive sin of hypocrisy, and therefore, according to Phoneman, has lost his Salvation for committing this presumptive sin. None other than Paul himself told Peter to his face that he was committing hypocrisy.

Galatians 2:11-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
No Return to the Law
11 Now when [a]Peter had come to Antioch, I [b]withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing [c]those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.




Goodnight Johnboy!

 

[PennEd]

You're welcome. But there's no need to speculate..you can read the dang thread yourself. Better yet, here's the synopsis:
1) Dude asked me a question
2) I asked for clarification in order to answer it
3) I go back to talking OSAS with others
4) Next thing I know, he launches an attack salvo of insults about me being to much of a coward to answer
5) He keeps up his rule violating attacks
6) I finally tell him I ain't gonna dialogue b/c I don't want my IQ to drop and I'm practicing Proverbs 26:4
Reporting him not an option - no good to risk a ban on anyone that so desperately needs the love of Jesus, right?
7) He then has the audacity to report another opponent of his OSAS ideas for "rules" violation
8) I call him out for his blatant hypocrisy by asking him how the flip is his attacks against me not a violation of the same?

Somebody said I was crying victim....of a keyboard warrior? LOL I just want the record straight. Still think the scales are dippin my way?

Well we can add lying to whatever other presumptive sins you've committed here my large and brave amigo!

 

[EleventhHour]

Hey haaay! My "intelligent" brawny friend has unwittingly answered my question!! Bravo Phoneman!

He has agreed that hypocrisy IS indeed a presumptive sin. So our sinless perfectionist claims wants to slice and dice sin into neat little packages, and say that these sins over here are paid for, but those sins over there are not covered by the Blood of Christ.
So I am guessing he also believes that PETER has lost his Salvation. Ya know, the same Peter that traveled with Jesus, and wrote 1 and 2 Peter. Peter ABSOLUTELY committed the presumptive sin of hypocrisy, and therefore, according to Phoneman, has lost his Salvation for committing this presumptive sin. None other than Paul himself told Peter to his face that he was committing hypocrisy.

Galatians 2:11-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
No Return to the Law
11 Now when [a]Peter had come to Antioch, I [b]withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing [c]those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.


Goodnight Johnboy!

Good night John Boy.... Good night!