Not By Works

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lightbearer said:
OSAS is a doctrine of satan. And all who follow and teach it are of Satan and His legion
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Only to those who think they can add to the work of the cross and resurrection of Christ Jesus.

He saves us to the uttermost and is Faithful and True.
His righteousness not ours.

Yes that sounds like we are promoting Satan alright.
Some twisted logic going on here.
 
EleventhHour said:
How about starting to rightly dividing the word of God rather than this monolithic understanding.

Saved until the end is in context of the tribulation..... it is referring to physical life...physical life will be saved.
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Absolute nonsense to claim verse 13 refers to the physical life when verse 12 is clearly referring to a declension in the spiritual life. Does it not say that Godly "agape" love will wax cold as the world gets worse? Only the saints can be recipients of agape, yet Jesus says the agape of some of the saints is gonna grow cold and dead!

Therefore, since verse 13 is in the same context of verse 12, the message of Jesus is that some of the saints are gonna die spiritually and those that endure to the end the temptation to join them in spiritual death shall be saved.

Why would Jesus supposedly concern us with preservation of physical life in the tribulation, as you suggest, when over and over He tells us our lives are but sheep to the slaughter, vapor here then gone, crucified all the day long? He ain't concerned about the physical in the least - He's got new bodies ready to go. What He is concerned with is our spiritual life, without which those new physical bodies mean nuthin.
 
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EleventhHour said:
But the point is this if he was saved and begins drowning it is not that he was never saved.. the point is that Jesus promises to chastise and will go after those that fail.
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How, by extending the life line again? The one he let go of the first time and didn't want? He can refuse it only as long as the rescuer offers it, and the rescuer will only offer it while the drowning person is in range of rescue.
 
Judges1318 said:
How, by extending the life line again? The one he let go of the first time and didn't want? He can refuse it only as long as the rescuer offers it, and the rescuer will only offer it while the drowning person is in range of rescue.
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Let's just skip analogies they rarely work.
 
Phoneman-777 said:
Absolute nonsense to claim verse 13 refers to the physical life when verse 12 is clearly referring to a declension in the spiritual life. Does it not say that Godly "agape" love will wax cold as the world gets worse? Only the saints can be recipients of agape, yet Jesus says the agape of some of the saints is gonna grow cold and dead!

Therefore, since verse 13 is in the same context of verse 12, the message of Jesus is that some of the saints are gonna die spiritually and those that endure to the end the temptation to join them in spiritual death shall be saved.

Why would Jesus supposedly concern us with preservation of physical life in the tribulation, as you suggest, when over and over He tells us our lives are but sheep to the slaughter, vapor here then gone, crucified all the day long? He ain't concerned about the physical in the least - He's got new bodies ready to go. What He is concerned with is our spiritual life, without which those new physical bodies mean nuthin.
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You referenced this verse in your post...

"but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved"

that is Matthew 24:13

Is this what you are referring to?
 
EleventhHour said:
How does that work, when conditional salvation ultimately denies Jesus and salvation by placing "self" in His place?
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When did believing in Christ, the condition for salvation, equate to placing self in Jesus' place?
I'm utterly amazed that anyone in the church could believe such an absurd doctrine.
This shows me that the church has fallen very far from the truth.

I'm personally convinced we are witnessing the great and final, end-times falling away in the church, and this new osas is the vehicle through which the falling away is occurring.
Even world events themselves seem to be showing the stage is being set for the global socialization of humanity under the anti-christ.

I don't think new style osas'ers are even remotely prepared to resist the mark of the beast and die in a continuing faith in Christ.
Why would they? They're still saved even if they don't.
What fool wouldn't save his own neck by denouncing faith in Christ and still being saved instead of getting his head cut off for not denouncing Christ and having that same salvation?
 
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Judges1318 said:
When did believing in Christ, the condition for salvation, equate to placing self in Jesus' place?
I'm utterly amazed that anyone could believe such an absurd doctrine.
This shows me that the church has fallen so far from the truth.

I'm personally convinced we are witnessing the great and final, end-times falling away in the church, and this new osas is the vehicle through which the falling away is occurring.
Even world events themselves seem to be showing the stage is being set for the global socialization of humanity under the anti-christ.
I don't think new style osas'ers are even remotely prepared to resist the mark of the beast and die.
Why would they? They're still saved even if they don't.
What fool wouldn't save his own neck by denouncing faith in Christ and still being saved instead of getting his head cut off for not denouncing Christ and having that same salvation?
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Listen you are twisting the intent my words

You are the one that stated "endurance" earns salvation ... not I

A believer cannot denounce their faith in Christ... if you properly understood faith you would know this.
 
Judges1318 said:
When did believing in Christ, the condition for salvation, equate to placing self in Jesus' place?
I'm utterly amazed that anyone in the church could believe such an absurd doctrine.
This shows me that the church has fallen very far from the truth.

I'm personally convinced we are witnessing the great and final, end-times falling away in the church, and this new osas is the vehicle through which the falling away is occurring.
Even world events themselves seem to be showing the stage is being set for the global socialization of humanity under the anti-christ.

I don't think new style osas'ers are even remotely prepared to resist the mark of the beast and die in a continuing faith in Christ.
Why would they? They're still saved even if they don't.
What fool wouldn't save his own neck by denouncing faith in Christ and still being saved instead of getting his head cut off for not denouncing Christ and having that same salvation?
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Hi Judges, those who denounce Christ will not be saved. Denouncing (denying) Christ is the unpardonable sin.. Only those who do NOT deny Christ and are willing to die for Him no matter what instead, will be saved..
 
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Judges1318 said:
When did believing in Christ, the condition for salvation, equate to placing self in Jesus' place?
I'm utterly amazed that anyone in the church could believe such an absurd doctrine.
This shows me that the church has fallen very far from the truth.

I'm personally convinced we are witnessing the great and final, end-times falling away in the church, and this new osas is the vehicle through which the falling away is occurring.
Even world events themselves seem to be showing the stage is being set for the global socialization of humanity under the anti-christ.

I don't think new style osas'ers are even remotely prepared to resist the mark of the beast and die in a continuing faith in Christ.
Why would they? They're still saved even if they don't.
What fool wouldn't save his own neck by denouncing faith in Christ and still being saved instead of getting his head cut off for not denouncing Christ and having that same salvation?
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More irony.. seriously

I really wonder how far your "self-effort" will take you?
 
EleventhHour said:
Only to those who think they can add to the work of the cross and resurrection of Christ Jesus.

He saves us to the uttermost and is Faithful and True.
His righteousness not ours.

Yes that sounds like we are promoting Satan alright.
Some twisted logic going on here.
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The part you left out, the part about you being able to go back to satan's camp in heart, mind, and soul, and body and you get to keep the salvation of Christ--that's what causes one to wonder if one is of the devil rather than God.
 
Judges1318 said:
Don't tell me.
Tell the church who now says you can remove the 'through faith' part and you are still saved no matter what.

You need to explain your old, obsolete version of osas to the multitude in the church who insist you don't have to continue in faith to continue to be saved. Their new osas has replaced your old osas.

No, the Galatians really were saved and then stopped having faith in Christ for justification.

Your obsolete version of osas says that can't happen to saved people.
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No Christian church that I know of teaches remove the “through faith” part and you are still saved no matter what. I see continuing in faith as proof of genuine conversion. I don’t see the words, “stopped believing in Christ and lost salvation” in Galatians 5. Saved people may get sidetracked and may stumble or temporarily fall, but to permanently fall away after making a profession of faith demonstrates a spurious faith.
 
EleventhHour said:
More irony.. seriously

I really wonder how far your "self-effort" will take you?
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Believing in Christ is self effort.
Amazing.
blue_ladybug said:
Hi Judges, those who denounce Christ will not be saved. Denouncing (denying) Christ is the unpardonable sin.. Only those who do NOT deny Christ and are willing to die for Him no matter what instead, will be saved..
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I agree.
You really need to tell this to the adherents of this huge new osas movement in the church.
They are sure you can stop believing and you are still saved.
 
mailmandan said:
Saved people may get sidetracked and may stumble or temporarily fall, but to permanently fall away after making a profession of faith demonstrates a spurious faith.
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You directly contradict what you believe about 1 John 2:19 then.
It says nothing about 'permanently' falling away.
How would you define that anyway?
6 months? A year? 10 years?
Obviously, you can only know what 'permanently' is until this life has ended.
It's an incredibly stupid doctrine.
 
EleventhHour said:
When you "workers" get the gospel then I will change it, until then I have complete and utter displeasure for what you preach... it is not the Gospel and a direct assault on the Saviour.
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ma'am please cease adding these negative to your signature!
you are a child of God,a part of the royal priest-hood,a princess. Do not take on any negatives that someone throws at you but put on the whole armour of God,which keeps us free!
 
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