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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Hi!
Imma "fruit" inspector
God Bless!
From what is being said , it is hard for me to believe that some members believe in the death, burial and Resurrection.Like your style...
Imma "fruit" inspector
God Bless!
I make it a point to not offend, but to also not subscribe to unBiblical ideas. OSAS folks do misinterpret Scripture and here's a CASE IN POINT: There's no other way to interpret the parable of the Unmerciful Servant except that the wicked servant was:
- guilty and condemned;
- asked for and received forgiveness granted based on nothing but the grace of his master;
- went away totally free and forgiven;
- wound up back in front of his master condemned and guilty and sentenced to the IDENTICAL fate for which he was originally forgiven.
Case Closed.
Case Re-opened. Your interpretation fits the typical biased NOSAS view. In Matthew 18:28, the servant who is unwilling to forgive his fellow servant such a small debt is presented as a repulsive, hypothetical situation. As unbelievable as this action would be, that is how unbelievable it would be for a genuine born again Christian, who has been forgiven such a huge debt, to be unforgiving of others with such a small debt. Notice that this "unforgiving servant" is called a "wicked" servant because no genuine born again Christian would have such an unforgiving heart. A Christian’s forgiveness of others is based on an understanding that we have been forgiven by God. Jesus warned that God cannot forgive us if we do not have humble and repentant hearts, which reveals the condition of our hearts by the way we treat others. Hearts that are humble and have received God’s grace forgive others from a heart that is saved, but vengeful hearts which do not forgive in such small matters reveal a heart that is unsaved.
Those who are unforgiving from the heart in such small matters show they are unfit to receive God’s ultimate forgiveness. Failure to forgive in such a small matter shows that this person has not fully embraced God’s grace and forgiveness, hence the term, "wicked servant," which is not descriptive of a genuine believer. The fact that this person is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean they were saved. The children of Israel were referred to as "the Lord’s servants," but they were not all saved. In Leviticus 25:55, we read - For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. In Isaiah 43:10, we read - You are my witnesses, says the LORD, my servant, whom I have chosen..
Well of course no one is going to say 'yes' to any of these, but as soon as we start talking about being able to stop believing and still being saved they will say 'yes' to that.
I know, it's amazing to me how they can't/won't see the plain words of the passage.
A free gift was asked for.
A free gift was 'really' given.
The free gift was taken back.
And this is how it is in the kingdom of God and how God will treat each one of us under these circumstances.
All in plain words of scripture, and completely and utterly contrary to the claim of osas that gifts can't be taken back or it wasn't a gift.
The servant really was forgiven despite your claim that God can not forgive such a person.
27The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
32 ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.
But your brand of osas has to make it so he was not really forgiven.
More osas 'not really' doctrine.
I see this over and over in osas arguments.
Believing doesn't really mean believing.
Forgiven doesn't really mean forgiven.
Sanctified doesn't really mean sanctified.
Saved doesn't really mean saved.
The modern brand of osas just doesn't care at all what it says--he's still forgiven no matter what he does or believes.
I already thoroughly explained the parable of the unforgiving servant in my post, but leave it to you to only focus on what you want to hear from it, ignore all the details and turn this parable into “type 2 works salvation.” Sorry, no “gotcha” moment for you.
"12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.
14We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end." - Hebrews 3:12-14
He's warning against the hardening of the heart in unbelief.
You can't retain your share in Christ if that happens to you.
You must hold your original conviction to the very end in order to retain your share in Christ you have received.
Is there some part of this passage you do not understand?
You said God can not forgive such a heart.
I showed you in the plain words of the passage the Master really did forgive him.
What part of that do you not understand?
God does not take away the believer's choice of whether or not he wants to be kept by Jesus.
The parable is a repulsive, hypothetical situation. What part of that do you not understand?
Jews in the last days before Christ’s return...see also Isaiah 2:2, the last days.
Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
E
EleventhHour
Guest
A debt is forgiven ... then a debt is forgiven.
God makes the choice not you...He chooses to forgive the debt once and it stays the way.
I do not support your fickle God in any way shape or form... He holds true to His promises, and His promises are not conditional regarding salvation ... it is not revocable.
End of Story
This has already been explained to you.
Hebrews 3:14 - For we “have become” [past tense Greek verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.
Notice this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
*The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast to the end." It’s rather - "you have become and now are, partakers of Christ (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast to the end.
The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in Christ and of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as partakers in Christ, will be those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end.
Now what about those faltering Hebrews who depart from God yet begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty, but then later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.
I didn't ask any questions about stopping believing.
I was asking the questions concerning sinning and no desire to change.
And FYI only twice have I heard someone say God knows I'm going to sin so it doesn't matter, he will forgive me. This was on going sin with no remorse.
Both got both barrels from me.
My questions were posed because there are many who do not hold to OSAS doctrine accuse those who do of the questions I asked.
Maybe ask the question yourself and see what responses you get.
These parts:
23“the kingdom of heaven is like...
35“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you...
I don't understand how these parts fit in with your 'hypothetical situation' explanation, because, obviously, they don't.
Apparently, it's not as hypothetical as you are saying it is in order to make the passage not chaff against your osas beliefs.
Everything you described is a person trampling on the blood of Christ in unbelief.
Osas says you can do that and you are still saved.
I'm always amazed at such stubborn refusal to acknowledge the plain words of scripture.
The passage plainly said he was really forgiven, and then had that forgiveness revoked.
And you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that is exactly what it says.
Amazing.
In the parable in this hypothetical situation, the servant was unable to pay his debt to his master, who was going to sell him, along with his wife and children and all that he had for repayment to be made, but the servant fell to his knees and begged his master to have patience with him and he will repay him everything. So the master had compassion/pity on the servant and forgave him the debt.
Now that’s not exactly how things work out in regards to being forgiven for our sin debt. The Lord doesn’t literally sell us and our family to pay back the sin debt that we could never repay, no matter how much we begged, but it does show the compassion of the Lord who is willing to forgive us our sin debt and while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us and our sins have been paid in full at the cross, but an unforgiving, unmerciful heart cannot expect to receive forgiveness of sins.