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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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None of us know which particular ex-believer can or can not come back to faith in Christ. We just know there is a time and place where God says they can't come back even if they want to. I can't tell an ex-believer that I know for sure they can't come back. I don't know if God has decided that, unless he tells me. I can only tell them that is what will happen to them if they refuse all of God's attempts to bring them back.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
I thought I had expressed very well the magnitude of God's grace when I said this:
Please, friend, do not think I was somehow hinting that I don't consider you a brother. I actually do consider you one.
I was only making reference to a previous discussion we had about the Biblical right of the believer to decide who they will consider a brother and who they will not. Despite what I said about us not being able to know which fallen ex-believer God will bring back to himself, and which he will not, that in no way changes the fact that we all have the Biblical right to consider a person a true believer or not.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Do you have any scripture to support this?
No .. because it is not there
Faith in Christ for salvation secures salvation... that is what scripture teaches.
“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, who were begotten…of God.”—John 1:12-13
Yes, the promise is for those who believe, not for those who used to believe, or never believed.
You must be believing to have salvation.
The verb 'believe' in the passage you quoted is in the present tense. That's mean real time, right now believing. It's the continuation of the very same believing you started out in.
Gee, thanks for giving me time to answer, lol.
"4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." - Hebrews 6:4-6
I know what osas does is make 'partakers of the Holy Spirit' not really mean partaking of the Holy Spirit. Just an example of how osas does that to so many scriptures, and why I dumped that doctrine. It's one of the most dishonest doctrines there is.
The parable from which this comes from isn't even talking about saved people, but rather the unsaved people of Israel who have rejected the covenant. Lost sheep in this case doesn't even mean saved people. And furthermore, just because he goes to find them doesn't mean he'll save 'em all.
I guess you go to Hebrews for that? You know, the book written to the Jews in the last days?
THAT IS THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER. YES IT WAS WRITTEN TO THE HEBREWS, not the so-called spiritual Israelites. I have two guys that insist that Church FALSELY replaced ISRAEL on my THREAD, https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/third-temple-news.155526/page-24 , Third Temple News thread. {You will find my site very interesting.} One of those teaching this false concept, actually wants to Believe that GOD changed the Name of Israel to Christians.
I told him in the original Bible JESUS nor the APOSTLES, ever used the TERM Christians. They used the Term ASSEMBLY, and later as sometime after 100 A.D., MEN added the word Christian to the definition of ekklêsia . But the actual GREEK WORD only means ASSEMBLY.
Quote:
Greek NASB Number: 1577
Greek Word: ἐκκλησία
Transliterated Word: ekklêsia
Root: from 1537 and 2564;
Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation:--
New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. End Quote.
So Paul clearly differentiates between believers of ISRAEL or Jews, and Gentile Believers.
Yes.
I have checked 3 sources and they all agree that the title “to the Hebrews” is a name that was traditionally ascribed to the letter and not part of what the original inspired writer wrote.
“This epistle is not a letter to the Hebrews, but a detailed explanation to everyone of the reasons behind Jesus’ life and passion”
“It’s title of ‘Hebrews’ is itself a misnomer, as the explanation in the book is plainly for everyone”
Another source states:
“The book of Hebrews doesn’t clearly identify its audience by name, city or region”
Another source states:
“This epistle’s title bears the traditional Greek title, ‘to the Hebrews’”
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EleventhHour
Guest
Who are His sheep now.. we are.
Jesus is speaking, pointing forward to the new covenant and his followers ... so He goes to find a sheep and leaves it there... have you ever been to a farm, no rational farmer goes through all that work to find his lost sheep and then leaves it.
So basically you deny that Jesus loves us and is willing to come rescue us if we should stray and if He does He does not retrieve us!
You really need to think about the picture of Jesus you portray ... it is rather offensive and that is putting it lightly.
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EleventhHour
Guest
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EleventhHour
Guest
Sigh..
Yes they are saved, absolutely.
The entire meaning of this whole passage to teach this group of believers that being born from above is a one time event that saves eternally, not like the sacrifices that need to be repeated.
They should not be trying to go back to that experience of being born from above, .... but move forward onto maturity
Hebrews affirms the finality of one sacrifice that it cannot be repeated, we STAY born again, to try to be born again more than once is to state that the sacrifice of Jesus was not sufficient to save and puts Him to open shame.
Another source says:
“The author did not give the book a title, and the word ‘hebrew’ doesn’t occur in the book”
Agreed!
“The author did not give the book a title, and the word ‘hebrew’ doesn’t occur in the book”
Agreed!
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EleventhHour
Guest
Here maybe this will help you understand.
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways (Hebrews 1:1).
Hebrews 1:1 The fathers and prophets.
Hebrews 1:5-14 Extensive Old Testament quotes.
Hebrews 3:12-19 Israel’s wilderness wanderings and unbelief.Hebrews 5:1-10
Aaron, the high priest, and Melchizedek.
Hebrews 6:13-20 Abraham and the promise.
Hebrews 7:1-28 Melchizedek, Abraham, and the Levites.
Hebrews 8:7-13 Old and new covenants.
Hebrews 9:1-27 The tabernacle, sacrifices, and cleansings.
Plainly obvious
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EleventhHour
Guest
So then you follow Liberal theologians, since they like to argue this, I was not aware they also teach sinless perfectionism.
The letter to the Hebrews speaks of all the duties of a Jew within the House/Temple and as ministers before GOD. This letter was clearly written to those who would have known the hidden secrets of Temple practice and worship and its connection and culmination in CHRIST JESUS
Unless you understand the OT duties as the shadows all hidden in CHRIST, you would be a bit confused as to how this letter could be addressed to the Hebrews.