Not By Works

[mailmandan]

What osas misses in the passage is it's works of ministry that they trusted in, not works of obedience. But osas insists the passage is saying it's talking about people who trust in their works of obedience. But Jesus said they do not have those works for that to somehow be the argument he is making. If they had works of obedience instead of being lawless evil doers, Christ would not be condemning them.

If these many people were trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and not in their works, then Christ would not be condemning them. Works of ministry done with the right motivation are works of obedience. Setting out to obtain salvation by works is not works of obedience and is also not the will of the Father.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ

 

[Judges1318]

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

I don't know how God keeping his promise to Abraham about his descendants despite them not believing in Christ and being in hell today has to mean God cannot take away the promise of salvation from a saved person. You're taking this verse out of the context it is in. It's not a chapter explaining how you can not lose your salvation.

It's a chapter that explains that the Israelites unbelief has not disqualified later generations of Israelites from having the gifts and calling promised to Israel through the Patriarchs. In fact, it explains in that chapter that you too, believing church, can be cut out of the tree the same way unbelieving Israelites were cut out of it and cast into hell. So don't be arrogant about having faith. You stand by faith. You won't stand if you stop having faith. You will have the same fate as the unbelieving Israelites.

 

[mailmandan]

In the end it will be “nominal” Christians who say, ‘Lord Lord,’ didn’t WE and genuine Christians who say, ‘Lord Lord,’ didn’t YOU.

 

[VCO]

How is everybody dealing with the Coronavirus Pandemic?

I plan to order my next order of food from Walmart, delivered, that way I am dealing with One Person not a whole store of people.
Everything that comes in a box, will debox it, and immediately put the box outside in the TRASH, and put what came out of the BOX, it into something else. Plastic or Glass containers, I will wipe them down with Clorox Wipes. Maybe turn my Frig down a little bit, as maybe the low temps will help kill the Virus. And Put EVERYTHING in the Freezer, that I CAN. I do have a small freezer down stairs, will see if it still RUNS. If it does, will order a bunch of frozen TV dinners.

I have another TIP.

I was watching Fox New earlier, and they had this Dr. that they interviewed. He said when the question came up, "We do no know how long the virus can live on an inanimate object, such as MAIL." Never thought of that, so a possible solution is to pop any mail you want to open, into a ZIPLOCK large baggie. PUT IT IN THE FREEZER FOR 24 Hours. Put the junk mail in a baggy and take it to the TRASH out side.

 

[CherieR]

 

[blue_ladybug]

 

[G2RBeliever]

 

[VCO]

View attachment 213376

So you really believe all those statements? You sound like a OSAS Born Again Evangelical Believer. SO AM I.

What an INTRODUCTION, THANK YOU. Welcome aboard, and most OSAS Born Again Evangelical style of BELIEVERS.

 

[VCO]

Here is the REALITY of there noise they Make.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Sorry VCO, I can't put a like on a video where a woman puts her cat in the tub, then hits it for being scared and scratching her.. In fact, to me that video wasn't funny at all.

Cats are self-cleaning. Unless they're muddy, have prickers or bugs on them, they DO NOT need to be carried to a tub and traumatized.

 

[G2RBeliever]

I believe ALL SCRIPTURE posted!

THE ARMOUR OF GOD: EPHESIANS 6:10-18;
Finally,my brethern,be strong in the Lord,and in the power of His might.
Put on the whole armour of God,that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood,but against principalities,against powers,against the rulers of darkness of THIS WORLD,against SPIRITUAL wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take into you the whole armour of God,that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,and having done all,to stand.
Stand therefore,having your loins gjrt about with truth,and having on the breastplate of righteousness. John 14:6,1 Corinthians 5:21
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Romans 10:9-15
Above ALL taking the shield of FAITH,wherewith ye shall be able to quench ALL the fiery darts of the wicked. Hebrews 11:11, James1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:3-9
And take the helmet of salvation,and the sword of the Spirit,which is the word of God: 22 Corinthians 10:5,2 Timothy 3:16-17
Praying ALWAYS with all prayer and supplication in the SPIRIT,and WATCHING thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

Psalm 91

 

[Judges1318]

In the end it will be “nominal” Christians who say, ‘Lord Lord,’ didn’t WE and genuine Christians who say, ‘Lord Lord,’ didn’t YOU.

Matthew 7:21-27 isn't about why they did the work they did, or who actually worked those works within them.
It's about what work they didn't do, for according to the passage they are being condemned for not having put His words into practice:

"26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand." - Matthew 7:26


The absence of putting Jesus' words into practice shows they are not in Christ and do not belong to Him:

"23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them." - 1 John 3:23-24

"10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." - 1 John 3:10


So we see, it has nothing to do with why they are doing works of ministry, or who's actually working those works in them, but rather it's about them having no works of obedience to His commands which would show them to belong to Christ and, therefore, allowed entry into the kingdom.

The passage also shows us that works of ministry do not constitute such works of obedience. Works of ministry are works of sacrifice, not works of obedience. But certainly works of sacrifice and service are to be done within the scope of the commands to believe in the name of Jesus and to love. But in and of themselves, works of ministry service do not constitute the works that show a person belongs to Christ.

 

[Judges1318]

In the end it will be “nominal” Christians who say, ‘Lord Lord,’ didn’t WE and genuine Christians who say, ‘Lord Lord,’ didn’t YOU.

In the end it will be 'Christians' who say, 'Lord, Lord', but who do not do what Jesus commands who will be turned away and not enter into the kingdom when Jesus returns. No works-less osas confession of faith will save them on that Day. Real faith has real obedience attached, or else it isn't real faith. And works of ministry are not what constitutes the obedience to his words that Jesus is talking about.

 

[mailmandan]

Matthew 7:21-27 isn't about why they did the work they did, or who actually worked those works within them.

It's about doing the will of God. Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. What is the will of God that these many "nominal" Christians failed to do? John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It's about what work they didn't do, for according to the passage they are being condemned for not having put His words into practice:

"26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand." - Matthew 7:26

Not having put His words into practice is a manifestation of unbelief and characterizes children of the devil and not children of God. (1 John 3:7-10) As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as some would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.

Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would be known to do, yet Christ never knew them (they had no personal relationship with Christ - John 17:3) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness. *Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them.

The absence of putting Jesus' words into practice shows they are not in Christ and do not belong to Him:

And NEVER were. Matthew 7:23 - ..I NEVER knew you..

"23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them." - 1 John 3:23-24

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him, already saved, demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

"10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." - 1 John 3:10

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

So we see, it has nothing to do with why they are doing works of ministry, or who's actually working those works in them, but rather it's about them having no works of obedience to His commands which would show them to belong to Christ and, therefore, allowed entry into the kingdom.

The heart of the issue is they did not do the will of God by believing in Christ unto salvation, (Matthew 7:21; John 6:40) regardless of how many attempted works of ministry/obedience that they set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. (Matthew 7:23)

The passage also shows us that works of ministry do not constitute such works of obedience. Works of ministry are works of sacrifice, not works of obedience.

Works of ministry from a righteous standing in Christ with the right motivation are works of obedience. Unbelievers can duplicate what appears to be good works, yet apart from the blood of Christ, it's all stained with sin.

But certainly works of sacrifice and service are to be done within the scope of the commands to believe in the name of Jesus and to love. But in and of themselves, works of ministry service do not constitute the works that show a person belongs to Christ.

A tree is known by its fruit and only the Lord truly knows everyone's heart.

 

[PennEd]

In the end it will be 'Christians' who say, 'Lord, Lord', but who do not do what Jesus commands who will be turned away and not enter into the kingdom when Jesus returns. No works-less osas confession of faith will save them on that Day. Real faith has real obedience attached, or else it isn't real faith. And works of ministry are not what constitutes the obedience to his words that Jesus is talking about.

Think of how silly this post is.
It is PRECISELY BECAUSE these guys proclaimed THEIR OWN works, and NOT Jesus's, that Christ tells them He NEVER knew them!

 

[John146]

In the end it will be 'Christians' who say, 'Lord, Lord', but who do not do what Jesus commands who will be turned away and not enter into the kingdom when Jesus returns. No works-less osas confession of faith will save them on that Day. Real faith has real obedience attached, or else it isn't real faith. And works of ministry are not what constitutes the obedience to his words that Jesus is talking about.

There was not a ‘christian’ in the audience. The body of Christ did not begin until after the resurrection.

 

[mailmandan]

In the end it will be 'Christians' who say, 'Lord, Lord', but who do not do what Jesus commands who will be turned away and not enter into the kingdom when Jesus returns.

You mean "nominal" Christians. Genuine Christians "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commands (1 John 2:3) and practice righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9,10) Not sure why you are so obsessed with seeing genuine Christians condemned.

No works-less osas confession of faith will save them on that Day.

This remains the heart of your agenda. Attack osas.

Real faith has real obedience attached, or else it isn't real faith.

Yes, we learn that in James 2:14-26. Obedience/good works is the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of real faith, but not the essence of faith and not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

And works of ministry are not what constitutes the obedience to his words that Jesus is talking about.

There are many people who perform works of ministry in various false religions and cults (that even label themselves as Christian) and such people may be "religious," but are not right with God. This explains why there are so many who enter through the wide gate that leads to destruction and few that enter through the narrow gate that leads to life. Few genuinely trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and many trust in works for salvation. *Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

 

[EleventhHour]

I agree.
Everyone who presently believes is presently saved.
No if's, and's, or but's about it.

The problem is when you see 'saved', and 'justified' you instantly see that as meaning always saved and justified, no matter what. That's the osas bias you people read all scripture through.

You remain saved and justified as long as you are believing.
Present, ongoing belief is the condition for being saved, and remaining saved.

Pay really close attention and once again not that that will change you, but at least for others who may be fooled by your false interpretation
And I quote @dcontroversal ........

Perfect tense verbs saturate the verses that deal.with salvation...below is just one example of dozens...and the bible is clear...

a. We were saved eternally the micro second be believed.
b. We are saved right now
c. We are CONTINUING to he saved into the future

Perfect tense Greek verb....past completed action with a present continuing result....ENGLISH does not have this application within it's grammatical construx...and exactly why MANY erroneously teach that scripture teaches a losable salvation....

In Ephesians 2:8, the words in the corrected text, “you have been saved,” is a translation of two Greek words which form what is called in the Greek text a “periphrastic perfect.” The “perfect” tense refers to action completed in past time, with the results of this action extending into present time and existing in a finished state. The “periphrastic” construction places additional emphasis on the present, finished state and refers to the persistent results during present time of the past,completed work

 

[Judges1318]

What is the will of God that these many "nominal" Christians failed to do? John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

We know that they did not do that part of God's will (believing in Christ) by the simple fact Christ is turning them away.
But the specific part of God's will that they did not do is obey Christ's words.
The Father's will includes more than just believing in Christ:

"23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us." - 1 John 3:23

"3 God’s will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin." - 1 Thessalonians 4:3

"14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." - Hebrews 12:14

That is the important message of the passage. But osas ignores this important part of God's will talked about in the passage, and in so doing gives false comfort to works-less osas adherents that somehow their works-less lives don't matter because they have already fulfilled the whole will of God when they (supposedly) believed in Jesus and that they can't lose their salvation no matter what. They don't know that if all they have is a confession of faith and no works that they don't really believe to salvation. As we see from the passages I posted above believing in Jesus, alone, does not fulfill the whole will of God spoken about in the passage.

"17 faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead (unable to save, see vs.14)." - James 2:17

 

[EleventhHour]

I don't know how God keeping his promise to Abraham about his descendants despite them not believing in Christ and being in hell today has to mean God cannot take away the promise of salvation from a saved person. You're taking this verse out of the context it is in. It's not a chapter explaining how you can not lose your salvation.

It's a chapter that explains that the Israelites unbelief has not disqualified later generations of Israelites from having the gifts and calling promised to Israel through the Patriarchs. In fact, it explains in that chapter that you too, believing church, can be cut out of the tree the same way unbelieving Israelites were cut out of it and cast into hell. So don't be arrogant about having faith. You stand by faith. You won't stand if you stop having faith. You will have the same fate as the unbelieving Israelites.

Again pay attention ....
as already stated by @dcontroversal and I quote

Abraham believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness....

Quote

THE BIGGEST, MOST FATAL error that leads to hell in this age is CONFLATING the truth that FAITH alone has ALWAYS saved the believer with the CONDITIONAL COVENANT of BLESSING IN THE LAND which was based UPON OBEDIENCE.......

Jesus was born, lived and died under the LAW which ratified the NEW COVENANT......and the entire law was reduced to 2......and neither KEEP SALVATION which is by grace through faith and eternally given!!!

End quote.