Not By Works

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Good morning. Here is my morning devotion:

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to me and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."

Eph: 2:8,9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves. It is a gift from God; not as a result of works, so that no one can boast.
 
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My morning devotion was

Hebrews 10
10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
 
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oyster67 said:
My morning devotion was

Hebrews 10
10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
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And I hope it shone the light of the eternal security of the believer for you.
 
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Judges1318 said:
YOU need to know that you belong to Him.
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I do.

His works in me may produce works of righteousness but the newness of mind paired with trust in His promises is enough to remove any doubt.

If you choose to look to your works for "evidence" or comfort that's on you. I will trust in Him.
Judges1318 said:
If you have those things, and are continuing in those things, then you know that you belong to Him.
If you don't have them, or are not continuing in them, you may not belong to Him at all.
You need to know for sure before Jesus returns.

You may never know you are saved for sure if you take false comfort in some misguided 'I don't have to do anything' doctrine of assurance.
Not having works of righteousness is actually where fear and lack of assurance comes from.
Diligence in works gives the believer full assurance of salvation right to the very end of life.
No works leaves the 'believer' wondering in lack of assurance if they really have Christ in them in salvation.
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I don't agree with the way you word this.

Today at points in this forum alone, I have fallen short of doing exactly what I should do. Even overlooking an offense can be a work of righteousness. (and the opposite can be the opposite especially if done in a far less than patient way)

Also today I have done as I should have. Even if it was the hard thing to do.

God has used me very recently in many ways and moved me to help others and share what He has provided. (time energy or resources)

My assurance doesn't come from any of this nor suggest I was never saved at all.

This is me being less than perfect plenty of room for growth and constant need of God for not only forgiveness but also leadership in order to be useful to Him I am GRATEFUL to.

Torment doesn't belong next to my assurance and tied to the number or frequency of "works".



Before being born again it is very easy to try to justify your errors. Afterwards you know better and even if your message is correct you may feel convicted about your delivery. Even if you share what God provides you may feel convicted by talking about it after as if maybe it sounded like a boast.

After being born again we know our Father sees us and we trust He is always right.

A sappling may still do things that aren't works of righteousness, and also not have anything big to point at..... but they shouldn't look to what they have done for assurance.


They should look to Gods promises, trust in them and then ask Him who they trust for the newness He promises.
 
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Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
So if a person says they’re saved but live a life in rebellion to His word, are you still Paulgoing to call that person saved just because they said they were?
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I'm saying my best works are filthy rags. I'm saying that the thief on the cross didn't sneak into heaven to be with Christ. I'm saying that whatever works I accomplish, however much I love doing them, are worthless when I approach my God in heaven, and I have only one hope, that is the work of Christ.
 
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oyster67 said:
Fascinating divergence. Please tell more.
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Elihoenai said:
Those that know Satanist Aleister Crowley and his influence are aware of what he has to with the topic. As stated previously, Satanic Freemasons, aka Knights Templars, has 7.7 Billion people under a Mind Control Spell. They have utterly perverted Sexual Relations.

Although Aleister Crowley was a very Powerful Satanist, the Ascetic Satanist are more Powerful.

If you can bear to have Sex, it must be between mature married Man and Woman and for procreation only. Stop having Recreational Sex!
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oyster67 said:
How is Rec Sex defined?
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"If you can bear to have Sex, it must be between mature married Man and Woman and for procreation only"

I bolded his error.

It is not something to tolerate but part of Gods creation and design for marriage, to "bear" it is just wrong, and the husband and wife aren't limited by his rules.


(also i believe the youtube reference was because he kept trying to tie illuminati type youtube videos to his points)
 
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OneOfHis said:
Your first point is that I don't know what a strawman is. You are wrong, it is when someone presents a false argument that isn't being stated to tare down opposed to the argument at hand.

Judges first reply was a verse that did not actually go hand and hand with what elo was saying (God requires works to see His child as righteous) but was posted as a form of agreement.


Your second point is built on the false assumption I am angry. Nope. I am not. The rest of your next point is just you rambling... Maybe you are angry?



Your next point was actually a weak false accusation, and a strawman. The same one you agreed with.

"Your trouble is (along with many others) anytime you hear “works” or “evidence of conversion” you foolishly conflate these with “works salvation” or a “works Gospel.”"


This is false. I have been attacked on this forum and in real life for not only encouraging good works but rebuking evil works. This is just a garbage attempt to justify your silly agreement.🤦‍♂️

You're posting on a thread called "not by works" and the topic at hand is how to be seen as righteous before God....


If you want to talk about how a Christian ought to walk there is no one here going to speak against "works".(despite your claims)



Next
"There is such a thing as evidence of conversion, it is sanctification."


Yup. All here would agree.


Next

"Now, show me where I said God needs evidence"


Never once said YOU said that, or implied YOU said that. I added that any works of righteousness(which we do), ARE NOT evidence before God that we are His children which elo has disagreed with and judges as seemed to disagree with.



You falsely accused me of making a strawman when I did not.
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I see you met preacher.
 
preacher4truth said:
He didn't make a straw man argument because he didn't represent anyone's views falsely in the post I responded to. He simply stated that there is a such thing as evidence of conversion. Which is really interesting, because you say you believe in it, then went on a angry tirade asking how I could agree with him. Um. LOL!!!!!!!!


No, you're angry. So angry in fact that you went off for me agreeing with something a person said which you say you actually believe yourself. You're so angry as soon as he speaks you tear into him before knowing what he really said.




Hmm. Straw man? You clicked "disagree" on my post that stated I believe in evidence of conversion, then went on a tirade of what I said, disagreeing with me on it, obviously blind to what I said.

So, since you disagreed with my entire post which was in its entirety defending evidence, you made it apparent you were against it.

That would make my response a reflection of you disagreeing with evidence of conversion. Or, you're just so angry you click disagree, and aren't seeing what I say, and that we both agree (allegedly) with evidence of conversion.

It appears you're going on callow tirades without reading what I said or comprehending it.





Nope, not all agree.




Oh, but you did imply it right here, so no, I didn't misrepresent you. You responded to my post with this. It doesn't address anything I stated, and is a complete straw man. No need to say "God doesn't need evidence" in response to me because it was never implied, thus your retort was out of context. The fact is that you're not actually reading what is stated, and are just going off on tangents:
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I see you have not changed much, why so angry?
 
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Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
Works are evidence of conversion. And conversion is by God‘s grace.
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Says who?
you can look at two people
the religious person who goes to church gives and gives and does all the things yet has never met christ

And a prodigal son who at the present time does not even resemble a child of God

And you would pick the lost Pharisee over the fallen brother who has not been drawn back yet
 
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