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EleventhHour
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Works can give evidence ... not prove.
Not By Works
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Works can give evidence ... not prove.
That's right. He's assuring them that Christ really did rise from the dead, just as he proclaimed to them when they first heard the gospel. Otherwise, the believing they have done has all been in vain if in fact Christ has not been raised from the dead (as false teachers have led them to believe). But you're trying to say Paul is telling them they are really saved and will hold fast to the gospel and have not believed in vain if they really believed, completely ignoring both the grammar of vs. 1 & 2, and what Paul is actually speaking to them about in the passage.
That incorrect interpretation is great for a osas argument, but defies what the passage actually says.
You have raised a very interesting point regarding interpretation of vs2.
I think those who are debating with you, don't see the way you see because they are trying to "harmonize" James 2 with Paul's gospel of grace.
To them, Paul and James are in total agreement so they need to somehow see James 2 in 1 Cor 15:1-4.
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EleventhHour
Guest
It is true, our believing is in vain if Jesus did not Rise from the dead, there were false teachers stating the Resurrection did not happen.
Paul is stressing how essential and pivotal the Resurrection is to the faith.
"4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."
"11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you."
Galatians 5:4, 4:11
"3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough." - 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
"35So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded."
"36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised." - Hebrews 10:35-36
The saved Galatians did not persevere and fell away from faith in Christ and back to reliance on the law for justification.
Yes, the promise is rock solid.
But you can't ignore that the promise is conditional on believing in Christ's work, and continuing in that very same believing to the very end. Which I know you agree with. You just disagree that the condition for salvation (believing) can ever cease in a believer, because if it did, that shows they were 'never of us' and never really believed to begin with. But as we can see, the Galatians, particularly, don't allow you to interpret 1 John 2:19 the way osas does.
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EleventhHour
Guest
John 17:12 (HCSB)
12 While I was with them, I was protecting them by Your name that You have given Me. I guarded them and not one of them is lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture may be fulfilled.
1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 2:16 (HCSB)
16 For who has known the Lord’s mind, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
you can not tell who is a believer and who is not just by works
any people appear to be believers when they are not, they just act like one,
in 1 Corinthians 15 the context is that the apostle is tearing down the arguments of those who do not believe in the literal, physical resurrection of the dead. he explains that denying the resurrection is denying the ((singular)) gospel he declares ((v.1)), the same ((singular)) gospel he received ((v.3)) -- that Christ died for us, was buried and rose the third day ((v.4)). he explains that the implications of denying the resurrection of the dead is denying the gospel ((vv. 12-14)) -- doing so would make anyone's faith vain ((vv.2,14,17,19))
really don't think there's any 'loss of salvation' going on in this chapter. there's Paul telling people their thinking is self-contradictory and that they need to get their heads straight.
It is geared towards evangelism. With a special emphasis on being prepared for the resistance that "science" wants to offer. Specifically, it collaborates with Christian science specialists (not to be confused with Christian Science) to challenge evolution with observable evidence that presents itself in real time, such as the fallibility of radiometric dating, a reasonable time frame of fossilization. He's distributing this information in an area where syncretism is promoted by the "Reformed" college in the area, and boy are they reacting with hostility towards it.
Amen! Hebrews 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hebrews 10:14 - For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
I absolutely cannot engage that dude anymore......I will get banned for saying what needs to said concerning the way he devalues Jesus, the truth and his anti-God stance against the word of God.
There have been about 50 people on this site since I have been on here that have absolutely twisted the truth so far out of whack that it literally sickens and infuriates me at the same time...He is one of the 50 top embellishers and twisters of the word of God I have ever seen
Faith has been dealt in measure.....and the last time I checked....I see no one saying to this mountain or tree............and the point is obvious.....most do not even have faith the size of a mustard seed.................
The Kingdom of God sure is lucky to have you doing your part to guard the Truth, man of holiness. Wow, so lucky.
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EleventhHour
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EleventhHour
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Aren't you the one that stated your face shone with the light of God or a similar statement?
I have posted this a 100 times probably and it was written to believers and the apostle included himself with the use of we....
IF we become faithless, he abides faithful because he cannot deny himself!
I have seen fires before that have been rained on and by ALL accounts appear to be out......and yet within the soaked coals and ashes there remained a small, smouldering coal that was easily fanned into a flame......FAITH in a believer may appear to be absent, gone or extinguished but it remains because GOD gifted it, and he will FINISH and COMPLETE IT!
He should change his name to NONlightbearer.............because what he peddles does not in any way, shape or form set forth LIGHT.......