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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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EleventhHour
Guest
Yes much better that hitting my head, which I still need, where can I get a dead horse?
You just got done saying that you were beating your head against the wall and you did not care if I answered. So what exactly are you waiting on?
Funny....
It truly amazes me how you can refute someone’s arguments until you are blue in the face, but it’s like they did not hear a word you said (and there is a reason for that) then they have the audacity to falsely accuse you of not having an answer for their arguments.
Don't hold your breath... he pretended I didn't have an answer for him when he re-vomited out the same nonsense he always does
so I reply with scriptures and he then ignored my post days ago...
Just a false accuser it seems...
And yet the last reply to you went to each one your points and showed your error.It truly amazes me how you can refute someone’s arguments until you are blue in the face, but it’s like they did not hear a word you said (and there is a reason for that) then they have the audacity to falsely accuse you of not having an answer for their arguments.
More attacks and no content.
Hypocrite.
You claim I show error in each point (attack without content)
After you claim I had nothing for your typical vomit. (which I then said I know how this goes we have been at this many times before)
Which you then falsely denied.
You are an accuser and a hypocrite who has never said anything of value that I've seen.
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EleventhHour
Guest
We have discussed this before ... but I have significantly elaborated.
You know you might surprise me.
I thought it would to much for you with each issue being addressed so let's do it in smaller chunks. So once againIn verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, BUT OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.
I find it interesting that the KJV reads - ..but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. The NKJV reads - ..if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.” The NIV reads - And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back. Even if the "he" mentioned in relation to the shrinking back is the "righteous one" regardless, the first clause is clarified by the second clause in verse 39 - But "we" are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
Please follow along......
"But the just one shall live by faith;" "and if HE is drawing back," "My soul is not pleased in him." But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of faith, to the preservation of the soul.
(Heb 10:38-39)
The word for drawing back is in the 3rd person singular. Proper grammar dictates if a word is used within the same sentence that a Noun or Adjective is used that is put forth in the singular that is the Subject, that the third person singular is reference to the subject. That would be the "just one" in the previous clause.
That is why most translation translate the passage with a "if he" or an "and if he" in relation to the word translated draws back. Because proper grammar dictates it. Incidentally the NET2's New Testament general letters is part of the work of one who is considered to be one of best Greek Scholars of our era. Daniel B. Wallace of the Dallas Seminary'. He would not have his name on it unless he approved. It is listed here along with numerous other translation that have that part of the translated properly.
But my righteous one will live by faith, and if he shrinks back, I take no pleasure in him.
(Heb 10:38 NET2)
"But the just shall live by faith;" "and if he draws back," "My soul is not pleased in him. But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of faith, to the preservation of the soul.
(Heb 10:38-39 LITV)
But my just man liveth by faith: but if he withdraw himself, he shall not please my soul.
(Heb 10:38 DRB)
But my righteous one shall live by faith: And if he shrink back, my soul hath no pleasure in him.
(Heb 10:38 ASV)
But my righteous one shall live by faith: And if he shrink back, my soul hath no pleasure in him.
(Heb 10:38 RV)
but my righteous one will live by faith, and if he turns back, my soul will take no pleasure in him."
(Heb 10:38 ISV)
But the just will live (by) faith; and if he should draw back, my soul is not delighting (in) him.
(Heb 10:38 GUV)
But My righteous one will live by faith. And if he draws-back, My soul is not well-pleased with him”.
(Heb 10:38 DLNT)
And it should also be noted that one can not draw back from something UNLESS THEY ARE IN A PLACE TO DRAW BACK FROM. And that place in which they were is the Just that was living by faith.
So with all that being stated one must reason that either you are right AND GOD through the Holy Spirit inspired the writer of Hebrews to use bad grammar and sentence structure. Which would make the text imperfect. Or you have been misunderstanding the text.
heb 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
____
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(vs 10 "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all)
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
_________
23-23Not a warning but encouragement to His children who are sanctified and perfected forever through CHRIST
_________
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
_________
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
_____________
If you truly believe this is saying willful sin will make you lose the once and for all forever sacrifice of sin, you must also believe if you sin once on purpose you lost salvation forever.... He sat down, also read hebrews 6
_______
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
________
We are His children... not adversaries.... like vs 13 who He will make His footstool AFTER SITTING DOWN and perfecting us forever through Jesus
_______
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
____________
Romans 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
____
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(vs 10 "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all)
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
_________
23-23Not a warning but encouragement to His children who are sanctified and perfected forever through CHRIST
_________
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
_________
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
_____________
If you truly believe this is saying willful sin will make you lose the once and for all forever sacrifice of sin, you must also believe if you sin once on purpose you lost salvation forever.... He sat down, also read hebrews 6
_______
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
________
We are His children... not adversaries.... like vs 13 who He will make His footstool AFTER SITTING DOWN and perfecting us forever through Jesus
_______
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
____________
Romans 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
More attacks no content. Address the last post to dan please and if you prove it wrong I will recant and give glory to GODHypocrite.
You claim I show error in each point (attack without content)
After you claim I had nothing for your typical vomit. (which I then said I know how this goes we have been at this many times before)
Which you then falsely denied.
You are an accuser and a hypocrite who has never said anything of value that I've seen.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
See I spoke to this exactly... that is why I would like you to respond.
I agree they had something to draw back from.
You are not fooling me for one second and the truth in post #126,157 still stands.
You are not reading the posts to which you are responding to.
I don't believe that. It is in the present tense and it is it is plural.The text in Hebrews should read if we are sinning willfully after we received the knowledge of the truth . It is a state in which a person is. It is who they are.
If we are sinning willfully we are his adversaries because we trampled underfoot the Son of God and counted the blood of the Covenant a unholy thing and done Despite UNTO the Spirit of Grace.
"But the just one shall live by faith;" "and if HE is drawing back," "My soul is not pleased in him." But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of faith, to the preservation of the soul.
(Heb 10:38-39)
The word for drawing back is in the 3rd person singular. Proper grammar dictates if a word is used within the same sentence that a Noun or Adjective is used that is put forth in the singular that is the Subject, that the third person singular is reference to the subject. That would be the "just one" in the previous clause.
That is why most translation translate the passage with a "if he" or an "and if he" in relation to the word translated draws back. Because proper grammar dictates it. Incidentally the NET2's New Testament general letters is part of the work of one who is considered to be one of best Greek Scholars of our era. Daniel B. Wallace of the Dallas Seminary'. He would not have his name on it unless he approved. It is listed here along with numerous other translation that have that part of the translated properly.
But my righteous one will live by faith, and if he shrinks back, I take no pleasure in him.
(Heb 10:38 NET2)
But the just will live (by) faith; and if he should draw back, my soul is not delighting (in) him.
(Heb 10:38 GUV)
But My righteous one will live by faith. And if he draws-back, My soul is not well-pleased with him”.
(Heb 10:38 DLNT)
And it should also be noted that one can not draw back from something UNLESS THEY ARE IN A PLACE TO DRAW BACK FROM. And that place in which they were is the Just that was living by faith.
So with all that being stated one must reason that either you are right AND GOD through the Holy Spirit inspired the writer of Hebrews to use bad grammar and sentence structure. Which would make the text imperfect. Or you have been misunderstanding the text.
No the following is facts. Your conjecture does not change this.
"But the just one shall live by faith;" "and if HE is drawing back," "My soul is not pleased in him." But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of faith, to the preservation of the soul.
(Heb 10:38-39)
The word for drawing back is in the 3rd person singular. Proper grammar dictates if a word is used within the same sentence that a Noun or Adjective is used that is put forth in the singular that is the Subject, that the third person singular is reference to the subject. That would be the "just one" in the previous clause.
That is why most translation translate the passage with a "if he" or an "and if he" in relation to the word translated draws back. Because proper grammar dictates it. Incidentally the NET2's New Testament general letters is part of the work of one who is considered to be one of best Greek Scholars of our era. Daniel B. Wallace of the Dallas Seminary'. He would not have his name on it unless he approved. It is listed here along with numerous other translation that have that part of the translated properly.
But my righteous one will live by faith, and if he shrinks back, I take no pleasure in him.
(Heb 10:38 NET2)
"But the just shall live by faith;" "and if he draws back," "My soul is not pleased in him. But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of faith, to the preservation of the soul.
(Heb 10:38-39 LITV)
But my just man liveth by faith: but if he withdraw himself, he shall not please my soul.
(Heb 10:38 DRB)
But my righteous one shall live by faith: And if he shrink back, my soul hath no pleasure in him.
(Heb 10:38 ASV)
But my righteous one shall live by faith: And if he shrink back, my soul hath no pleasure in him.
(Heb 10:38 RV)
but my righteous one will live by faith, and if he turns back, my soul will take no pleasure in him."
(Heb 10:38 ISV)
But the just will live (by) faith; and if he should draw back, my soul is not delighting (in) him.
(Heb 10:38 GUV)
But My righteous one will live by faith. And if he draws-back, My soul is not well-pleased with him”.
(Heb 10:38 DLNT)
And it should also be noted that one can not draw back from something UNLESS THEY ARE IN A PLACE TO DRAW BACK FROM. And that place in which they were is the Just that was living by faith.
So with all that being stated one must reason that either you are right AND GOD through the Holy Spirit inspired the writer of Hebrews to use bad grammar and sentence structure. Which would make the text imperfect. Or you have been misunderstanding the text.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
Waiting, you know I have snow to shovel and I need to go out and see if they sell dead horses anywhere.