Not By Works

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Chris1975 said:
Lol^^^
No fruit means loss of salvation. There in black and white.
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There is no such thing as salvation devoid of fruit. Everyone who is saved will produce fruit. However if their fruit is not what you think it is does not mean the lost salvation
that’s the issue
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
There is no such thing as salvation devoid of fruit. Everyone who is saved will produce fruit. However if their fruit is not what you think it is does not mean the lost salvation
that’s the issue
Click to expand...

The issue is knowing Jesus and walking in the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 2:21
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
 
JohnW34 said:
I feel very sad for anyone who can only do work that is disgusting "bloody rags".
To such I would suggest they need to experience some real faith, real cleansing and renewal so the works they can do in Christ are works to His glory and praise.

Matt 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

Eph 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

God did not create us to do things that people will see and call dirty bloody rags, things of disgust and impurity, but things of honour, service and love to the praise of the Lord Jesus Christ, Amen
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Any works which are done to gain or maintain salvation is bloody rags
If you go to God on judgement day expecting him to take into account how much fruit you produced as a means to determine if he should let you through the pearly gates. It’s like handing him bloody rags
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
There is no such thing as salvation devoid of fruit. Everyone who is saved will produce fruit. However if their fruit is not what you think it is does not mean the lost salvation
that’s the issue
Click to expand...

These verses are alongside each other. For a reason.

Matthew 7
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

The trees being cut down (loss of salvation - the trees were living up to that point) are the believers who don't bear fruit, because they don't abide in Him, because they don't obey, because they don't love God.

Thats the ordering of it. That's how it happens.
 
EleventhHour said:
What exactly did you trust Jesus for when you state you were saved?
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this is the real argument - does Jesus save, or does Jesus offer a opportunity to get saved, but it is up to us to earn it.

that is the real question .
we know that Jesus saves to the uttermost. they do not.
 
Chris1975 said:
These verses are alongside each other. For a reason.

Matthew 7
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

The trees being cut down (loss of salvation - the trees were living up to that point) are the believers who don't bear fruit, because they don't abide in Him, because they don't obey, because they don't love God.

Thats the ordering of it. That's how it happens.
Click to expand...
Good luck earning your gift
 
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Melach said:
think about what you are saying. you are saying eternal life can end.

then it wasnt eternal. what part of "i give them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish" dont you understand?

back to drawing board with you.
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If you are alive you can also die. The term eternal is a time frame.
Does satan have eternal life? He will be alive eternally, though he will be tortured eternally.

So eternal life can be withdrawn, the blessing presence of the Lord, the name removed from the book of life.
Or more precisely, the status one thought one had could actually be self deception.

What do the weeds the enemy plants in the church feel? That they are saved or lost?
A promise given by Jesus is to the elect, but only He knows eternally who are His.

So many assume they understand Jesus, while ignoring the difficult side of His words.
Feeling good is a common aim of everyone, but scripture cuts through like a knife.
 
JohnW34 said:
If you are alive you can also die. The term eternal is a time frame.
Does satan have eternal life? He will be alive eternally, though he will be tortured eternally.

So eternal life can be withdrawn, the blessing presence of the Lord, the name removed from the book of life.
Or more precisely, the status one thought one had could actually be self deception.

What do the weeds the enemy plants in the church feel? That they are saved or lost?
A promise given by Jesus is to the elect, but only He knows eternally who are His.

So many assume they understand Jesus, while ignoring the difficult side of His words.
Feeling good is a common aim of everyone, but scripture cuts through like a knife.
Click to expand...
Jesus said in John 6 we will never die
I trust him
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Any works which are done to gain or maintain salvation is bloody rags
If you go to God on judgement day expecting him to take into account how much fruit you produced as a means to determine if he should let you through the pearly gates. It’s like handing him bloody rags
Click to expand...

Of course. We can become addicted to condemnation, and defeat, assuming all action is based on self justification.
When Jesus transforms us, His life is alive in our hearts, and springs forward in works of grace and love.

This is totally alien to some as they are consumed with justification because they cannot get around feelings of guilt for sin, and are bound by its grasp, rather than the knowing the glorious freedom and grace His blood and forgiveness brings to our souls.

Heb 10:22
let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.

James 2:12-13
Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,
because judgement without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgement!
 
JohnW34 said:
If you are alive you can also die. The term eternal is a time frame.
Does satan have eternal life? He will be alive eternally, though he will be tortured eternally.

So eternal life can be withdrawn, the blessing presence of the Lord, the name removed from the book of life.
Or more precisely, the status one thought one had could actually be self deception.

What do the weeds the enemy plants in the church feel? That they are saved or lost?
A promise given by Jesus is to the elect, but only He knows eternally who are His.

So many assume they understand Jesus, while ignoring the difficult side of His words.
Feeling good is a common aim of everyone, but scripture cuts through like a knife.
Click to expand...

This so so wrong.

God is not fickle....He gives eternal life and we are sealed with the Spirit... you know you malign/distort the very nature of God.
 
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