Not By Works

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Chris1975 said:
Yes. Those who remained in the house are called SONS. Those who left the house are called SLAVES.

John 8
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
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Hebrews 3:6 says we are Christ’s house IF we hold fast the hope of our confidence firm to the end.

This is a conditional statement. The apodosis (we are...) is true if the protasis (if...) is true. And the apodosis is a past time event ( perfect tense)
 
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Chris1975 said:
Correct. Instead of reading the bible VANILLA, they have been indoctrinated (like herded animals) into certain denominational teachings. Then when the bible is eventually read, it is read through these denominational filters.
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That's kinda what I see you doing though... just sayin' ;)

… where YOU are reading many verses through the grid of: "any-member-of-the-Church-which-is-His-body-may-lose-or-forfeit-salvation/eternal-life" denominations [-who-teach-that (un-biblically teach that ;) )]
 
Discern said:
Question two. Is the word believe or faith used of the stony soil in the parable of the sower?

Question three. Is all belief the same as faith?
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The word Believe is used.

Luke 8
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of [g]temptation fall away.
 
Chris1975 said:
The word Believe is used.

Luke 8
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of [g]temptation fall away.
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Good catch.

But is all belief saving belief. (James 2:19)
 
Discern said:
Very good. And the devils have some correct beliefs themselves. (James 2:19)

The word translated Believev is not always the same as believe unto salvation.
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AMEN!! (y) Spot on.


[a lot of false religions also "believe there is one God" ;) (believing "there is one God" is not sufficient to save you/a person)]
 
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Romans 10 -

1 Brothers, indeed the desire and supplication of my heart to God on behalf of them is for salvation. 2 For I bear witness about them that they have zeal for God, but not according to knowledge [G1922]. 3 For being ignorant of the righteousness of God and seeking to establish the own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness of God.
 
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calibob said:
EZ-PZ James 2:19 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder.
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Correct. Same verb pisteuo in James 2:19 that is used in Luke 8.

Lots of people assent to the gospel, that are not truly converted. Because it stays in their head and never reaches the heart. Because of hardness that is not broken up by the plow of Spirit conviction
 
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Discern said:
Correct. Same verb pisteuo in James 2:19 that is used in Luke 8.

Lots of people assent to the gospel, that are not truly converted. Because it stays in their head and never reaches the heart. Because of hardness that is not broken up by the plow of Spirit conviction
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Once the plow breaks up the soil and the seed penetrates, you have faith that lasts. Because it has ROOT.

All plowing is Gods work, by the way.
 
Chris1975 said:
Not so. What happens is that Election verses are mixed up with Believer verses such that Calvinists assume they are one and the same thing. And they are not.

  • Not all people who are currently believers will continue in the faith. Those who fall away were NEVER ELECT.
  • All those who are ELECT are Believers.
See the distinction?

Only God knows SPECIFICALLY who his Elect are. We don't. We can refer to them corporately as Elect (the true church are the Elect) but this is yet to be revealed.

Then what happens is that all of the Elect verses are rounded up and applied to all believers. As a result entire sections of the bible have to be lopped off to accommodate this thinking. The parable of the sower on the rocky ground, where some BELIEVED for a while but then fell away are given "creative" reasons as to why they weren't really believers (in turn disputing the word of God). Or the warnings about apostasy (falling away), trampling the blood of Christ by which they were sanctified. Also given creative "Solutions" to force fit the doctrine. Other sections are lopped off which warn the body of Christ to continue in His goodness, branches bearing fruit, enduring temptation, warnings against false prophets and teachers, the overthrowing the faith of some, and it goes on and on.

All because of not rightly dividing the word of truth.

Election is True. But it has not been properly understood. Hence the division.
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So Chris. Believers do not become elect because they last . They last because they truly believe, which means they are Gods elect. Don’t ask me how election works, God knows.
 
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gb9 said:
you see, if one is walking in the Sprit, then that means that person is manifesting the fruits of the Sprit, against which there is no law.

but, in the fruits of the Sprit is no Sabbath keeping.
so, further proof, no Sabbath keeping required for salvation through faith in Christ.
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Uhh, GB9, are you perchance on an ipod or other stupid device? Because it keeps auto-carroting the word "Spirit" as "Sprit".. lol
 
Discern said:
Good catch.

But is all belief saving belief. (James 2:19)
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There is a distinction. Demons believe in God but the way of salvation is not open to them. Nor can there be and works therefrom for obvious reasons. The Parable of the sower shows a difference - we are dealing with mankind, the object of God's salvation. These ones received the word with great joy. So yes they did believe. But how does someone get deeper roots? Growth. By searching out for and drinking the living waters. Mere temptation (what I have been warning about in other posts) was sufficient to uproot these and they fell away. They never took their salvation seriously. They never went on the path of sanctification by the Holy Spirit. For if they did, they might have endured. So, yes, sins (the outcome of yielding to temptation) can cause a falling away from the faith.
 
Discern said:
So Chris. Believers do not become elect because they last . They last because they truly believe, which means they are Gods elect. Don’t ask me how election works, God knows.
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And you are correct in saying we don’t know who the Elect are. We can only be absolutely certain of our election. Because of the faithfulness of God’s Word which says “ ...that you may know you have eternal life”. and “make your calling and election sure”
 
Chris1975 said:
There is a distinction. Demons believe in God but the way of salvation is not open to them. Nor can there be and works therefrom for obvious reasons. The Parable of the sower shows a difference - we are dealing with mankind, the object of God's salvation. These ones received the word with great joy. So yes they did believe. But how does someone get deeper roots? Growth. By searching out for and drinking the living waters. Mere temptation (what I have been warning about in other posts) was sufficient to uproot these and they fell away. They never took their salvation seriously. They never went on the path of sanctification by the Holy Spirit. For if they did, they might have endured. So, yes, sins (the outcome of yielding to temptation) can cause a falling away from the faith.
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No, I disagree The seed did grow. It grew quickly and shriveled up. Because it had no root. And it had no root because it was stony. The seed was sown on fallow and unprepared ground. The seed never took root.
 
Discern said:
No, I disagree The seed did grow. It grew quickly and shriveled up. Because it had no root. And it had no root because it was stony. The seed was sown on fallow and unprepared ground. The seed never took root.
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And the seed that never took roots, is not a Born Again CHRISTIAN. Born Again, causes the SEED TO TAKE ROOT, in HIS ETERNAL SECURITY.
 
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