Not By Works

[John146]

Fact is? I'm against any teaching, that gives the believer any cause for justifying the "not growing spiritually mature", by not "moving beyond the principle doctrines of Christ."

How do you think this takes place? Automatically?

 

[Whispered]

I know that. But all once saved always saved doctrines are rooted in what Calvin taught.

Love him, or hate him, or just take what you like about him, his misunderstanding of election is probably the main reason we have a church that so whole heatedly embraces the notion that you can not lose your salvation. Because, obviously, if his understanding of 'election' is true and that you really are a believer because God created you to be one and there's nothing you or satan can do about that, then that does indeed have to mean you would not be able to lose what God has predetermined ahead of time that you will be created to be. But, as we can see from the scriptures themselves, saved people really do fall away into the indeterminate state of whether or not they will come back to faith, and drastic measures are commanded to try to get the wayward believer to come back to faith and repentance so he can be saved when Jesus comes back, because he's not going to be if he remains in the condition he is in.

You may repeat that falsity as often as you wish as pertains to your errant insistence that OSAS is rooted in what Calvin taught. You are wrong. You will always be wrong. Why you insist on giving John Calvin credit for what Christ accomplished at the cross is your burden as you repeat the blasphemy that you insist as true. Perhaps you should investigate Calvinism before making such false claims as that.

Every Christian knows just in reading the Gospels that eternal irrevocable grace and Salvation are of Christ! Christ preceded John Calvin's cult. If you are actually a member, since you insist on the errant proclamation that OSAS is rooted in Calvin's teachings, leave while you may still be saved by the truth of God in Christ.

 

[Discern]

You're missing it.
The passage is saying this person is to be turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh so their spirit may/might be saved when Jesus comes back.

"...deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." - 1 Corinthians 5:5

But why does that have to happen to him if he is already saved and can't lose that salvation? Not only that, the verb 'may be saved' is in the Subjunctive mood which means this:

"Is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances."
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/5/1/t_conc_1067005

So, not only does he have to be turned over to satan to be saved when Jesus comes back, it's not certain that doing that will work! Yet, once saved always saved says 1) this person can't lose his salvation in the first place, and 2) even though the saved person may fall they will come back and will remain saved no matter what. Once saved always saved loses on both counts in this one verse alone.

Judges. Would you mind if I ask you what type of church you go to? I’m a southern Baptist myself

 

[dcontroversal]

False ....wrong and an ignorant statement.....shame on those that agree.

You malign and slander someone who earnestly contends for the truth.

I know why you do this....because you have tremdous difficulty accepting the Gospel where there is no self.

Believe me sir I have tempered my language significantly so as to not be banned....but I find your words absolutely appalling and insulting to @dcontroversal and all of us who uphold the correct, true Gospel.

You peddle...... we uphold....big difference!

You know.....I have always judged the gospel that people peddle and or promote by what THEY say about scripture which is BIBLICAL.......but when ONE openly lies about a member of 6 years and states that they WANT THEIR sin and to live in SIN when they have NEVER said that or implied that, but only quoted scripture like 1st John......IMO they should be banned...........it was an open attack on my character, it maligned my character and it was a flat accusatory false lying attack on me personally!

 

[dcontroversal]

Preaching against grace and the Gospel based on grace..... comes from a heart of unbelief

AMEN.......and they for sure are standing against the truth........

 

[dcontroversal]

One may fall into the flesh for a season, and yet not remain there.

AND one may have nothing but works of wood, hay and stubble or be like the Corinthian brother cut loose for the destruction of the flesh............the bible makes it clear......notice that BOTH of the following are IN THE KINGDOM!!

Whoever then shall break one of the least of these commandments and shall teach others the same, he will be called least in the kingdom of the heavens; but whoever shall keep and shall teach them, he will be called great in the kingdom of the heavens

 

[dcontroversal]

That's not a test. The believer left their former lifestyle once they accepted Christ as that which would save them from it.

His whole premise is false because it is based upon a self saving, losable, self maintained false salvation viewed from distorted context(s), skewed scripture and not the faith and or hope the bible sets forth.......

 

[dcontroversal]

That's an untenable position. You have no ability to speak for every Christian.

They all do this and then like yesterday, accuse us of loving sin and wanting to live in sin <----THE SAME thing they (false teachers) accused Paul of in his day.....<----that right there tells me who is correct and who is not....WE incessantly point to JESUS, the CROSS, HIS power, promises, faith etc......and they POINT to SELF and accuse us of wanting to live in SIN because we are eternally secure in CHRIST.....speaks VOLUMES!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Then why do OSAS people say they are always saved regardless of what they do?

Tell us ALL.....who does God chasten and WHY?

Then wrap your head around the words...

IRREVOCABLE
LOSE NOTHING
KEPT by HIS POWER
ETERNAL
EVERLASTING
SEALED UNTO
HE ABIDES FAITHFUL
WHATSOVEVER GOD DOES is EVERLASTING
DOES NOT SIN
JUSTIFIED
IT IS FINISHED
SAVED
KEEP

JUST to name a few!!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Do you not understand plain English?

Anyone who says differently is classed as an adversary and will experience the punishment that goes with it.

Do you understand CONTEXT.....obviously not!

 

[dcontroversal]

King James Bible 1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus

They absolutely cannot grasp the concept of chastisement and who God chastens or why.........

 

[John146]

They absolutely cannot grasp the concept of chastisement and who God chastens or why.........

And death is sometimes the result. It’s like God saying, “let me get you up here before you cause anymore damage.”

 

[Discern]

AND one may have nothing but works of wood, hay and stubble or be like the Corinthian brother cut loose for the destruction of the flesh............the bible makes it clear......notice that BOTH of the following are IN THE KINGDOM!!

Whoever then shall break one of the least of these commandments and shall teach others the same, he will be called least in the kingdom of the heavens; but whoever shall keep and shall teach them, he will be called great in the kingdom of the heavens

Yes, cut loose for destruction of the flesh so that the spirit might be saved.

Also, excommunication is done with the intent of disciplining an errant brother with the hope he will eventually turn and be restored to full fellowship

And also to protect the rest of the members of the local body

 

[Discern]

Tell us ALL.....who does God chasten and WHY?

Then wrap your head around the words...

IRREVOCABLE
LOSE NOTHING
KEPT by HIS POWER
ETERNAL
EVERLASTING
SEALED UNTO
HE ABIDES FAITHFUL
WHATSOVEVER GOD DOES is EVERLASTING
DOES NOT SIN
JUSTIFIED
IT IS FINISHED
SAVED
KEEP

JUST to name a few!!!!!

God chastens His children.

A person who is born of God desires holiness and seeks to be pure as He is pure, yet no one is so sanctified to where there is not a continual daily battle with the flesh and even failings.

According to James, some are even double minded, ( and called to get it right)

Yet sin is a grief and an enemy to us, not a pleasure and a friend, as we are accused of making it

 

[Hevosmies]

Tell us ALL.....who does God chasten and WHY?

Then wrap your head around the words...

IRREVOCABLE
LOSE NOTHING
KEPT by HIS POWER
ETERNAL
EVERLASTING
SEALED UNTO
HE ABIDES FAITHFUL
WHATSOVEVER GOD DOES is EVERLASTING
DOES NOT SIN
JUSTIFIED
IT IS FINISHED
SAVED
KEEP

JUST to name a few!!!!!

Lets get thru these one by one:

IRREVOCABLE (Unless revoked)
LOSE NOTHING (Unless some folks are lost)
KEPT by HIS POWER (Unless you dont keep yourself in yuor own power)
ETERNAL (we'll see about that)
EVERLASTING (Ditto)
SEALED UNTO (unsealed even though there is no verses of unsealed)
HE ABIDES FAITHFUL (unless you are unfaithful even if there is a verse that says otherwise dont matter)
WHATSOVEVER GOD DOES is EVERLASTING (unless what He does is un-everlasting)
DOES NOT SIN (or sins)
JUSTIFIED (for now.....)
IT IS FINISHED (it aint over until its done)
SAVED (for now....)
KEEP (yeah thats right you better keep the commandments OR ELSE)


There we go. I got that data from the Uncertainty Bible translation society. Its translated from the greek text called Textus Decepticus

 

[VCO]

It sure is a "matter of maturity!" It sure IS!

Tis the "some who NEVER grow up! NEVER "move beyond the principle doctrines of Christ", yet CONTINUE in their "peddling" their OSAS "false" doctrine/s, of not having to "war against", or as Paul put it? "STRUGGLE AGAINST "powers and principalities of darkness", "of spiritual wickedness in high places!"

Now! If the word "struggle against" doesn't mean "efforts, or works?"

Then what EXACTLY DOES it mean, to a "not by works" salvationist?

Their "love God, and yer neighbor like yerself and He'll take care of it for ya?"

Doesn't seem to "hold water", to what Paul was trying to teach. Does it?

One CANNOT, yea? MUST not combine Jesus' FIRST commandment, with the 2nd!

Without putting oneself in "jeopardy" of worshiping the "created" (neighbor) more so then the "CREATOR!"

Meaning? "The Law" was NEVER abolished! By Jesus' appearance on the scene!

The "law" concerning the "PROPHECIES of Jesus' COMING ONTO THE SCENE?" By God's faithful servants the prophets? Was FULFILLED, by Jesus being born of a virgin, from the line and tribe of King David!

Which caused a "change in the Holy Priesthood!"

Yet, the "original 10 commandments?" Were NEVER "rendered obsolete", by Christ's "being sent!"

See, Nothing but BAD FRUIT. Here are the Primary VERSES that teach OSAS to US Born Again Believers:

🕆

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.

1 Corinthians 15:10 (HCSB)
10 But by God’s grace I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not ineffective. However, I worked more than any of them, yet not I, but God’s grace that was with me.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Timothy 2:19 (HCSB)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, having this inscription: The Lord knows those who are His, and Everyone who names the name of the Lord must turn away from unrighteousness.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.

🕆

There is a reason why you think this is nothing but Foolishness:

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[dcontroversal]

God chastens His children.

A person who is born of God desires holiness and seeks to be pure as He is pure, yet no one is so sanctified to where there is not a continual daily battle with the flesh and even failings.

According to James, some are even double minded, ( and called to get it right)

Yet sin is a grief and an enemy to us, not a pleasure and a friend, as we are accused of making it

Amen....God only whips CHILDEREN that are disobedient....he does not cast them away.....or yank their salvation....

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, cut loose for destruction of the flesh so that the spirit might be saved.

Also, excommunication is done with the intent of disciplining an errant brother with the hope he will eventually turn and be restored to full fellowship

And also to protect the rest of the members of the local body

Key word....fellowship.....to restore fellowship....not salvation which is eternally given....!

 

[VCO]

Well? I don't believe in the rapture!

Least not in the "sense" it's "flying away!"

"We all shall be "changed", is not "flying away" far as I'm concerned!

Fact is? I'm against any teaching, that gives the believer any cause for justifying the "not growing spiritually mature", by not "moving beyond the principle doctrines of Christ."

That is your choice, so why are you so amazed when you consistently believe opposite of us, including OSAS (as you said) A "certain" "cultic fascist fanaticism" within the OSAS'er camp! That we are reluctant to say you are part of US.

I don't like to call it the Rapture, because the Psuedo Christians have latched on to that TERM, so I perfer to call it the CALLING OUT OF THE CHURCH TO GO TO THE WEDDING IN HEAVEN. It is not a "Flying Away", We believe we will be CALLED OUT to go to the Wedding of the LAMB in HEAVEN, in the New City Jerusalem HE has built for His Bride:

Revelation 19:7 (NCV)
7 Let us rejoice and be happy and give God glory, because the wedding of the Lamb has come, and the Lamb’s bride has made herself ready.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

 

[PS]

See, Nothing but BAD FRUIT. Here are the Primary VERSES that teach OSAS to US Born Again Believers:

🕆

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.

1 Corinthians 15:10 (HCSB)
10 But by God’s grace I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not ineffective. However, I worked more than any of them, yet not I, but God’s grace that was with me.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Timothy 2:19 (HCSB)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, having this inscription: The Lord knows those who are His, and Everyone who names the name of the Lord must turn away from unrighteousness.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.

🕆

There is a reason why you think this is nothing but Foolishness:

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, (2Ti 1:9 KJV)

What self-righteous arrogance do we have here for you to think Christ died only for the OSAS brigade. Jesus died for the whole world, so that all those who believe in Him shall be saved. (John 3:16. This was God's provision from the foundation of the world, the proviso being that we believe in Him and accept Him as our Lord and saviour as is our choice.

The same or similar for the rest of the scriptures you post.