Whose house we are = saved. Just as in Ephesians 2:19, we read - Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Amen! We initially come to God filthy and because of no good thing we had done. We are washed, we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Jesus becomes our Head. Jesus, the last Adam; the second Man.
I have been going through old journals from '99-'01. It was early days for me, then. 3/4/96 is when the Lord originally drew me to seek Him and I began to see the Gospel of the Kingdom, the one that Jesus preached. Despite having gone to "church" my whole life, I had never heard it.
One of the things I ran across was a teaching about the Monarch butterfly. It was the subject of a recent time of family devotions and it was one of those lessons that was especially impactful. Children's eyes get big and your wife says it was especially good. But the monarch, and its circle of life was one of the parables the Lord used as an illustration of the Good News of the Kingdom as I was first coming to understand. The Monarch does not lean on its own understanding and we are to be a kingdom of priests. Monarch, kingdom. The butterfly is miraculous. They are born in the U.S. or Canada and they find a tiny stand of trees in Mexico. Look at the size of our brains. I could in no way, shape or form do that. And their grace as they fly and how casual they seem.
The Lord used other examples in those years: a spider and the perfection of its web. The soaring of a vulture and its skill. But I am created in God's own image. And He showed me how a man could soar - as Jesus. I remember, after He performed a miracle, recorded in Mt. 9 I believe. It doesn't conclude with "They praised God who had given such authority unto Jesus," but rather, "They glorified God who had given such authority unto men." Jesus is the pattern son.
Yesterday, the Lord brought a teaching from 1 Cor.15 back to mind. It was about Jesus being the last Adam, and the second man. We are born in Adam and we are crucified with Christ, joined with Him through baptism. We come up in to a new life, the Way Jesus walked in. We are to be godly, like God. The safety here is that we are to always be under His authority. He purchased us and "in Him we live, and move and have our being." Jesus Christ is our Head. We worship Him in spirit and in truth. Our spiritual act of worship is the presentation of our bodies to Him today and that's how the Monarch does it.
It doesn't have its own agenda. It doesn't lean on its own understanding. What you see it doing, that's God. What you saw Jesus doing, that's God. It is to be the same with us and that does take faith!
When His Kingdom comes, His will is done, on Earth just as it is in Heaven. In my life, in my home. "Thy Kingdom, Thy government, Thy governing come!" That is what we seek first today and His righteousness. Like all those birds and butterflies, how much more will he provided for us today. Those monarchs plant none of those flowers that are there all along its route. It is led. It drinks. It dwells in satisfaction.
"The fear of the Lord is life itself. Filled with it we will abide in satisfaction and not be visited with evil". "Happy is he who feareth alway." "He has shown you, O man what is right; and what does the Lord require of you today? To act justly, to love righteousness and to walk humbly with your God." There has never been a proud Monarch. He is King of kings. Jesus Christ is our King and we are a kingdom of priests. Amen.
Romans 8v12
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
>Rom 8v12 shows he is dealing with the brethren of believers (the church and not those outside),
>Rom 8v12 shows that these believer have a choice. The possibility of living according to the flesh exists.
>If you by the Spirit put to death the misdeeds of the body you will live. Notice the "You" in there. It is a choice "You" make.
>What was not possible with the old unregenerated man is now possible because he/she has the power of the Holy Spirit living inside of them. The new seed of the Spirit was implanted upon conversion. The Spirit begins to lead you. YOU still have a choice in the matter.
>You have a part to play in sanctification.
Walking according to the Spirit is descriptive of children of God. Those who are habitually dominated by the sinful nature (unbelievers) put their minds on the things of the sinful nature, but those who are habitually dominated by the Spirit (believers) put their minds on the things of the Spirit.
I find it interesting that you continue to IGNORE verses 8-11. Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Those mentioned in Titus 1v15-16 were all at some stage believers. To be included in the church (the ones being addressed) they had to have believed in the Lord Jesus. It goes on to say they "Profess to know God...." However we now find the ones who have fallen away to have become "defiled" and "unbelieving". Their minds and consciences are also defiled (sin is not such a bad bedfellow). It then goes on to describe their actions, one of which is disobedience. ----- but disobedience to what? Its disobedience to God's Word (once again talking of those who were once in the church who had God's word preached to them but chose to disobey). Its not talking about those outside of the church (who never had God's Word).
Where does it say that?
That's not the point here. How about a little context Titus 1:10 - For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. 15 To the pure all things are pure, (IN CONTRAST WITH) but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. - Not descriptive of believers.
It doesn't say those who were pure have fallen away and are now defiled and unbelieving. The CONTRAST is between those who ARE PURE and those who ARE DEFILED AND UNBELIEVING.
It's not difficult to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with genuine Christians at just about any church. Those whose overall character is described as "disobedient" is not descriptive of genuine believers. In Ephesians 2:2, we read - And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience..
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EleventhHour
Guest
Of course I agree... I did not state otherwise, after all my posts defending eternal security not sure why you would think otherwise .
Roman 8 v9-11 shows the Part that the Holy Spirit brings to the equation. The Victory. God dwelling in us. This is not only the promise of victory, but the actual indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. We are now no longer just Soul and Flesh. We are now Spirit, Soul and Flesh. Only those who are born again have their Spirit alive. An unregenerated man has not the spirit to lead him. His soul is dominated by his fleshly desires. Now, we have those who are Christ's. The indwelling Spirit who gives life to your mortal bodies. The regenerated man now has something the unregenerated man doesnt. The hope of victory over the Flesh.
Now the Soul is left with a choice (Free Will). Do I live according to the Flesh or According to the Spirit (Romans 8v12-13). Only those who live according to the Spirit are called the Sons of God (Romans 8v14).
John 8v34-36 34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Paul sets up a CONTRAST between those who live according to the flesh (unbelievers/false brethren) and those who live according to the Spirit (believers). In verses 8-9, Paul clearly states - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. See the Contrast?
Now of course Paul is writing to believers (yet it's not hard to find unbelievers/false brethren mixed in with the group) as we see throughout scripture. Why would Paul be warning Spirit-dwelt believers about habitually living in the flesh and facing eternal death when they are not in the flesh but in the Spirit and the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness?
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EleventhHour
Guest
A partaker of Christ is saved... however the language is rich and we should not simplify the writers ideas, .... i.e. "we partake of his riches" can have a broader, deeper application.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Yes this does not negate my point... my point is that it is not speaking to spiritual salvation but entering rest.... a temporal rest.. and it is not speaking to perseverance... as in...... those who preserver are truly saved.
yes you said it like honestly who has ever said we should just disobey God's word? never did i see anyone say it.
me coming from works salvation background understand what they mean. they say it because when you say i was backslid, if they see someone doing something its automatically salvation lost. but you say no that person may be just backslid and i will rebuke him maybe he will come back to Lord and repent. but if you teach he might still be saved, thats when you are saying its ok to be disobedient according to these guys.
what i see as big issue for both NOSAS and OSAS sides is this: we simply cant know other people's hearts. we cant tell for sure ok that is saved this isnt saved. God looks at the heart man looks on appearance, we can only look at their testimony, beliefs and how they conduct their life. if that is ok we would all conclude ok its saved man. if someone never wants to repent, doesnt even acknowledge they are sinning if they do something wrong, we would all conclude ok its a lost man.
can we all agree with what i said? i think it makes a lot of sense to toot my own horn.
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EleventhHour
Guest
The tense of the verb is not the only consideration... audience relevance, the purpose of the letter, intent of the author... etc.,
Yes perseverance in discipleship ... not salvation ... the fact that the author makes this exhortation/admonishment demonstrates the possibility for a believer to not persevere in faithfulness to the faith.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Yes a part to play in sanctification.....but salvation is secure.
When you rightly divide these two in scripture... it becomes clear salvation cannot be lost or forfeited.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am not sure why this is hard for people to understand.
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
The "difference" between Priests and sheep, is like the difference from a "seed" that is saved and then the falsely assuming that of all future "growth", if any, is "automatically" saved as well. Whereas, Priests on the other hand, know the "seed" is saved, but not assuming of the "future growth" is. Is called "perpetual obligation"(or perpetual cultivation) to the "Great Commandment/s.
This is why "we" are called "works salvationists." Legalists, Judieizers, among other monikers mockers and scoffers can come up with.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Amen
we have many today who think they are saved but have not yet taken themselves to true saving faith. There are warnings are all over the word meant for them and not just in hebrews
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
This person loves to take the word out of context.
they need to preach to themselves.