Not By Works

[PS]

Go look the word up...delusional....then look in the mirror and cite the definition!

More insults.

 

[dcontroversal]

More insults.

When you falsely accuse me Catholic....what do you expect.....why are you still here....did you lie when you said you were done and had enough???

How does that help your self serving Burger King theology of remaining saved while not sinning!

 

[Discern]

Many will state this upfront.....but when they really reveal what they believe you will find their is works somewhere in the equation

If you read Keith Green's writings, you would condemn him as a non Christian.

You are missing the point being made On this thread at this time about what JUDGES holds to....He has been here before, banned once and peddles the same crap this time....same verbiage, same style.....and listen.......

NO ONE is SAVED by placing trust into a FALSE gospel <---This is ONE of the many points MADE by GALATIANS...the SAME point made by JESUS....

the Pharisees BELIEVED in a COMING MESSIAH, YET they EMBELLISHED that FAITH and CHRIST said they WERE DEAD MEN, could NOT come where he was GOING and would DIE in their SINS.....

THE PSALMS and DAVID'S statements, JOB the OLDEST book in the BIBLE and other places ALL pointed to ETERNAL SECURITY and or LIFE after DEATH.........

A GOSPEL EMBELLISHED and OR MISREPRESENTED has NO POWER to save a man....end of story.....and that IS THE POINT........

I said "...if Judges said such things as he is accused of saying, then he is in serious error." I had not read anything about maintaining salvation up to that point. And when I did read similar things from him, I strongly disagreed with him. Go find another huckleberry to wrangle with. I believe in eternal security. I said it numerous times. Anyone who can understand English can read what I posted and see that. You cannot see it, because you like to be on the warpath.

 

[Discern]

But you came to understanding that is the key.... those who have been here for a while have tried to show Judges (possibly aka Ralph) the error of his teaching by scripture and reason and he just refuses to see it and then tries to persuade others.

Yes, people tried to convince me for a long time too. I had a teacher in college that tried to convince me, but what I had been taught was too ingrained. God had to remove it LAYER BY LAYER. There have been many Christians who have had the same experience. Judge not before the time. Let God decide who are his. You don't know what a person will hold in five, ten, fifteen years.

My transition from NOSAS to OSAS was a long, gradual journey. But the whole time, I knew that I had been justified by grace, and Christ was keeping me by Grace. I was not depending on works to save me in any way.

 

[EleventhHour]

If you read Keith Green's writings, you would condemn him as a non Christian.

I said "...if Judges said such things as he is accused of saying, then he is in serious error." I had not read anything about maintaining salvation up to that point. And when I did read similar things from him, I strongly disagreed with him. Go find another huckleberry to wrangle with. I believe in eternal security. I said it numerous times. Anyone who can understand English can read what I posted and see that. You cannot see it, because you have a high and mighty need to make yourself a big-shot by attacking people.

I know all about Keith Green... even received His Last Day Newsletter... have all... every single album.

I do believe he was saved ... sadly he followed the wrong teachers (Ravenhill etc.,) like and many of his songs seem to border on good works as part of salvation

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes, people tried to convince me for a long time too. I had a teacher in college that tried to convince me, but what I had been taught was too ingrained. God had to remove it LAYER BY LAYER. There have been many Christians who have had the same experience. Judge not before the time. Let God decide who are his. You don't know what a person will hold in five, ten, fifteen years.

My transition from NOSAS to OSAS was a long, gradual journey. But the whole time, I knew that I had been justified by grace, and Christ was keeping me by Grace. I was not depending on works to save me in any way.

I am glad to learn this. ... now we just have to work on that.... perseverance thing...LOL

 

[Discern]

No one can judge anyone to hell we can just judge a false gospe

You know I never advocated a false gospel, don't you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You know I never advocated a false gospel, don't you?

Yes I know this bro!

 

[Discern]

I know all about Keith Green... even received His Last Day Newsletter... have all... every single album.

I do believe he was saved ... sadly he followed the wrong teachers (Ravenhill etc.,) like and many of his songs seem to border on good works as part of salvation

So by Dcontroversals's argument, you did the same thing I did. You defended a person as a brother that does not agree with Dcontroversal's Gospel.

Keith Green started out a certain way and mellowed and emphasized grace as time went on, So did Wesley, who you, and DC and others would say, you would say he taught a false gospel. And if he taught a false gospel, by Dcontroversal's standards, he is not your brother. And if he is not your brother, what necessarily follows?

 

[Discern]

I know all about Keith Green... even received His Last Day Newsletter... have all... every single album.

I do believe he was saved ... sadly he followed the wrong teachers (Ravenhill etc.,) like and many of his songs seem to border on good works as part of salvation

I don't know of anyone who showed more love to God than Keith Green. And as far as I can tell, HE DID NOT do the things he did because he thought they in some way saved him or added to his salvation. Of course, we cannot know for sure, but I am not going to impute that to him.

I no longer find this thread edifying.

 

[EleventhHour]

So by DC's argument, you did the same thing I did. You defended a person as a brother that does not agree with DC's Gospel.

Looking back if I had understood that Keith Green did not agree with eternal security I probably would have not read his little books... I did not know he preached that back then.

From the way I read @dcontroversal posts it is the doctrine that is the problem

If you have ever come under the influence of a false teacher like I have...... you would understand why at least I find NOSAS so wrong and hard to tolerate.

 

[EleventhHour]

I don't know of anyone who showed more love to God than Keith Green. And as far as I can tell, HE DID NOT do the things he did because he thought they in some way saved him or added to his salvation. Of course, we cannot know for sure, but I am not going to impute that to him.

He was passionate for the faith......I agree.

 

[Discern]

Looking back if I had understood that Keith Green did not agree with eternal security I probably would have not read his little books... I did not know he preached that back then.

From the way I read @dcontroversal posts it is the doctrine that is the problem

If you have ever come under the influence of a false teacher like I have...... you would understand why at least I find NOSAS so wrong and hard to tolerate.

I look at NOSAS the same way I look at Calvinists. I do not agree with them, but I do not condemn them as non brethren.

If you guys want to exclude everyone who is nosas, and say that they are unsaved, fine for you. I do not feel at liberty to do that.

I will teach the truth, and even judge and condemn error, and let God judge the individuals, whether they are saved or no.

You have been very interesting to talk to.

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes, people tried to convince me for a long time too. I had a teacher in college that tried to convince me, but what I had been taught was too ingrained. God had to remove it LAYER BY LAYER. There have been many Christians who have had the same experience. Judge not before the time. Let God decide who are his. You don't know what a person will hold in five, ten, fifteen years.

My transition from NOSAS to OSAS was a long, gradual journey. But the whole time, I knew that I had been justified by grace, and Christ was keeping me by Grace. I was not depending on works to save me in any way.

I also think that knowlingly teaching a false gospel... is different than not knowing... and I suspect there are some who do it knowlingly to cause others to stumble.... so best to be cautious of all.

I never read or pay attention to anyone who does not adhere to eternal security... and I had all those authors you mentioned (MacArthur, Sproul, Ravenhill, Finney, Spurgeon, Bonhoeffer etc., etc., ) and I got rid of each and every book and started from scratch best this I ever did.

 

[EleventhHour]

I look at NOSAS the same way I look at Calvinists. I do not agree with them, but I do not condemn them as non brethren.

If you guys want to exclude everyone who is nosas, and say that they are unsaved, fine for you. I do not feel at liberty to do that.

I will teach the truth, and even judge and condemn error, and let God judge the individuals, whether they are saved or no.

You have been very interesting to talk to.

Some cannot give the Gospel correctly.... that is the first problem... then NOSAS becomes the second.

Well .. I try to be interesting if nothing else ...lol.

 

[Discern]

I also think that knowlingly teaching a false gospel... is different than not knowing... and I suspect there are some who do it knowlingly to cause others to stumble.... so best to be cautious of all.

I never read or pay attention to anyone who does not adhere to eternal security... and I had all those authors you mentioned (MacArthur, Sproul, Ravenhill, Finney, Spurgeon, Bonhoefferet etc., etc., ) and I got rid of each and every book and started from scratch best this I ever did.

McArthur, Sproul, spurgeon believe(d) in eternal security. Who told you they didnt

Sproul was a big reason I began to believe in eternal security. A BIG reason

 

[EleventhHour]

McArthur, Sproul, spurgeon believe(d) in eternal security. Who told you they didnt

Sproul was a big reason I began to believe in eternal security. A BIG reason

The wrong kind of eternal security... 'perseverance"

 

[dcontroversal]

@Discern read the following posted today.....false gospel, no power and those that peddle this are not being led of God and two of MANY.....I do not see how you can defend this guy as a brother when what he peddles is FALSE

Yep.
Very simple.
The way God intended.
If you believe today, you are saved today.
If you don't believe today, you are not saved today.

I think it's time to stop letting salaried pastors, desperate for sermon material, over think and complicate the scriptures and lead us away from the simple truths that are there.

This problem is directly related to the church, as a whole, not having more than just the indwelling Spirit in salvation. Lifeless pastors and teachers go in search of dynamic teachings and understandings and seek the life of God in those instead of just living in the power and life of the Spirit the way we're supposed to. Do you think it any surprise that 'Cessationism' (the end of the supernatural gifts of the Spirit) is a prominent doctrine of the same reformers who gave us 'once saved always saved'?

Judges1318 said:
Keep believing all his words and trust in him daily, and Christ will keep you righteous before the Father. If you stop believing and trusting, and you refuse to come back, you will no longer have the intercessory ministry of Christ operating on your behalf in heaven to keep you righteous before God because that ministry is applied to you through faith.

 

[dcontroversal]

@Discern does this sound biblical to you???

What do they have to do with what we have been talking about? We're talking about continuing to trust in Christ for justification, not do works of righteousness related to the law to earn God's declaration of righteousness.

You must continue to trust in Christ for justification to be saved when he returns. I know you don't disagree with that. But for some reason you find it necessary to believe and stress that a person who is genuinely justified in Christ through faith would never stop trusting in Christ for justification. Why does that need to be stressed?

 

[dcontroversal]

@Discern does that sound biblical to you?

Let's get back to the plain words of the Bible and start teaching and leading people into the Holy Spirit beyond that of simply having Him lifelessly inside of you in salvation. The world will never take a weak, powerless church seriously, which is why they don't take us seriously. Especially as long as we, instead of living in power, divide ourselves over stupid, meaningless doctrines, like once saved always saved.