Not By Works

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PS said:
It is not only sufficient to believe in Jesus for salvation, we need to abide in Him, and He in us. It is the indwelling of Christ that is important. Do you agree so far?
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1 John 4:15 - Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
 
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Discern said:
Some believe that continuance in faith is NOT synonomous with self maintained faith.

Hebrews 3:6 and Hebrews 3:14 seem to indicate a holding fast to confidence that is not self maintained, but rather a result of what God has already done and is doing.
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I am not saying this is what Judges believes. It is just a general statement. And I should have said "some believe in a continuance in faith that is not synonomous with a self maintained faith". That would have been a better way of putting it.
 
Discern said:
Some believe that continuance in faith is NOT synonomous with self maintained faith.

Hebrews 3:6 and Hebrews 3:14 seem to indicate a holding fast to confidence that is not self maintained, but rather a result of what God has already done and is doing.

If anyone says we have to maintain our salvation, that is an error. We are given by God to Jesus, and He loses none.
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Self preservationists seek to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and maintain faith in their own strength and do not put much stock in God's preservation. (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) This makes room for back door boasting.

Such people seem to take pride in believing that Jesus merely "initially" saved them, but now it's up to them to ultimately "keep themselves saved," which sounds dangerously close to "type 2 works salvation."
 
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mailmandan said:
Self preservationists seek to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and maintain faith in their own strength and do not put much stock in God's preservation. (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) This makes room for back door boasting.
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It opens the back door for spiritual failure, too. As soon as I depend on my own strength, I fail miserably. But He that is in me is greater than my flesh and greater than all the devils of earth and hell put together
 
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Judges1318 said:
Keep believing all his words and trust in him daily, and Christ will keep you righteous before the Father. If you stop believing and trusting, and you refuse to come back, you will no longer have the intercessory ministry of Christ operating on your behalf in heaven to keep you righteous before God because that ministry is applied to you through faith.
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Thankfully, I am thinking Rosemary knows this not to be true.
 
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Discern said:
I agree. Why some come and some don’t. It’s a mystery to me. I know the ones who come do not come because they are better or wiser. In fact,God chooses the weak and foolish and jacked up people in the world
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you said it: God chooses, God draws, God raises. and He is perfect in judgement
 
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Discern said:
How is starting with "Faith without works is dead" and ending with "this does not mean faith plus works saves" circular?

And which premise is in the conclusion
Besides, it is a biblical argument.

Faith without works is dead. (James 2:20) Dead faith cannot save. (James 2:14) But we are saved APART from works. (Ephesians 2:9)Therefore, it is not the works that make the faith alive. It is our union with Christ that brings our faith to life. (Ephesians 2:5)

So faith without works is dead does not equal saved by faith plus works. (Ephesians 2:9) Sola fidei. (Romans 4:3)
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Except for something that was dead logically was once alive... let us give James some credit here.
As well James is not dealing with saving faith and it is not a letter to nominal Christians either.
 
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PS said:
God does not fail, but we do. Get that into your head. Something else, it is you who is denying God's word, in other words you are making God a liar, and so denying the very God. I reckon anyone who does that, is in big, big trouble from which there is no coming back. Do you understand!
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We have failed, we are failing, we can not live up to gods standard,people have tried to show you this for along time now, you still do not understand, you somehow think because you have not commited murder or rape your ok. Well the law says your not ok, sadly to many Jews did not figure this out, and it appears you have not also.

God requires perfection, anything short requires death, Ie as James said, you can keep the whole law yet stumble in one point, your guilty of all.

what can you not understand this?

God does not fail, we always fail, we will never live up to Gods standard, all have sinned even the ones who never committed the sins legalists keep harping on (murder rape porn) the day of atonement was fo all the children of Isreal, not just the murderers, even the morally good people needed their sins atoned for.

until you understand this. I don’t know what to say
 
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mailmandan said:
It's not complicated. What do you believe it means to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?" (Acts 16:31) Those who believe will be saved.

Does Satan believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Is he saved? Obviously NOT.
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Satan does not believe he sinned, he believes he is ok

thats the difference.
 
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EleventhHour said:
Except for something that was dead logically was once alive... let us give James some credit here.
As well James is not dealing with saving faith and it is not a letter to nominal Christians either.
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Observe the way the word “dead” is used in the following passages

Ephesians 2:1. Colossians 2:13. Hebrews 6:1. Hebrews 9:14,
 
Discern said:
The Bible contains no circular arguments and it contains no contradictions.

James and Paul dealt with two DIFFERENT errors in their writings. James dealt with mere nominal Christians. Paul dealt with legalism.
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Actually James and Paul were addressing different groups of believers.

If you are willing to accept that, then there is no contradiction. If you try to mix the audience together, there will be.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
do you believe the prodigal son would have went to hell if he died before he returned? (Lost his soship)
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That’s like asking if the sheep would have died if the shepherd failed to find it. Misses the point of the parable. But no, we do not lose our son ship as prodigals and God does not send sons to hell
 
Guojing said:
Actually James and Paul were addressing different groups of believers.

If you are willing to accept that, then there is no contradiction. If you try to mix the audience together, there will be.
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Addressing two different sets of believers with ONE unified BODY of TRUTH
 
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