Not By Works

[mailmandan]

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

In Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty. How could Paul truly say that whom He justified, these He also glorified if born again Christians who are justified could lose their justification? I'm still looking for the specific words, "lose or lost salvation" in the Bible, but those specific words are nowhere to be found.

 

[mailmandan]

Salvation has been turned into a mental acceptance of certain facts and doctrines.

Obtaining salvation goes beyond mere mental acceptance of certain facts. In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (that is mental acceptance of certain facts) yet the demons do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. They do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31)

One can believe "mental assent" that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) "happened" (that is mental acceptance of certain facts) but that is not enough. We MUST also trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. That is the difference between merely believing in our head and believing in our HEART.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Legalist?
'Earning' my salvation?
I do not keep the Mosaic Sabbaths and Festivals, and certainly not in order to be justified.
In fact, I don't do anything in order to earn a declaration of right standing with God.
Justification is by faith in Christ. How in heaven and earth does that make me a legalist? How is that me trying to earn my salvation?

no, but you do everything to try to KEEP salvation and not lose it

your like the Galatians, thinking you began in the spirit, but must perfect in the flesh.yes you may not follow parts of the law to keep your salvation, but you still work hard to not lose your salvation, and condemn people who trust god who has perfected them and IS sanctifying them, inspite of their weaknesses and loving sin.

you may fool some, but most will not be fooled by what you really teach

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Galatians had real faith in God and were saved. We know because they had the Holy Spirit and Paul says they were saved. Yet they fell away from Christ and stopped believing in Him for justification and were turning back to the law for justification. So much for the teaching that really saved people don't stop believing.

The ones who fell away and went back to law went to who they truly had faith in. The law

you do not leave your true faith to go back to something you have repented from and insist that is what really saves you

paul was warning the people in the church who were on the fringe. Who had not yet really recieved Christ, but we’re still contemplating,it was they who needed to make a decision.

chose christ,or chose the the law. You can’t have it both ways.

people need to realize, most churches have truely saved baby christians, mature and adult christians, and people who have not yet made the decision, the not yet saved group.

many of them will be people John said left the church and became antichrists, because they were never of us

i know that is hard for some to see, but it is reality. We see it in our churches today.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you do not BELIEVE you will lose your justification.

If you do not believe, YOU NEVER HAD SALVATION

the wrath of God abides in themThey never saw life, as jesus said, he NEVER KNEW THEM

you do not go from belief to unbelief unless

1. the person you trust fails you and proves to be untrustworthy
2. you never really believed in the first place (you may have had mental agreement, but you never had saving faith

your legalism will fail. You will never earn salvation no matter how hard you try

 

[Hevosmies]

You guys know whats that thing called that they put on trucks to make them old pieces of junk-trash look brand new?

ANY VEHICLE EXPERTS in the building? Im an expert when it comes to HORSES, feel free to ask me anything. When it comes to cars I dunno! I know they eat oil and gas and money! They also dont talk back to me the way my horse does. Well, my horse dont really talk but you know, we still communicate, oddly enough we agree on EVERYTHING. she is my true friend!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You're evading the point.
The saved Galatians went back to law keeping for justification.
But it is being argued in this thread that they are still saved.
Meanwhile the believers in this forum who keep the law are told they are not saved because they are keeping the law.
No one seems to be able to explain this obvious contradiction of teaching.

You missed the point

if they had eternal life, they were perfected forever,

they can not lose what god has freely given by unlearning it

the people who left, went to what they REALLY trusted. The law

like a dog, they returned to their vomit, why? They were still dogs, they were not made into new creatures by god himself

a dog who was made a new creature by the creator, cannot make himself into a dog again.

thats what your proposing,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The reality is salvation is through faith and those who profess to know God must continue in the gospel until the end, which is what salvation is!. So ofcourse those who fall away will be damned.... and yes they were never truly saved to begin with, because salvation is from God not Man, its forever.

Jacob i loved, Esau i hated (wrath) Romans 9:16, declared God when talking about salvation, its God's salvation.

Some people say.... oooh thats not fair etc etc... says who? whats fair is that we all go into eternal hell, can't God be gracious?

You need to study more. my friend.. some history and hebrew would do you well.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one has said this....or even implied it....more of your true character bleeding through hey

The slanders keep slandering knowing not what they say.because they refuse to sit and listen. They listen to what they were taught, and not to what people actually say

and they wonder why their words fall on deaf ears.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Christ became no effect to them

yep.

that means his grace never saved them. They had it in their hands, free to recieve,and they fell, having never recieved its power,

nice try, try reading the whole verse and not just the part you think proves your right.

 

[gb9]

The slanders keep slandering knowing not what they say.because they refuse to sit and listen. They listen to what they were taught, and not to what people actually say

and they wonder why their words fall on deaf ears.

that is why I do not come by the site as often as I used to, tired of people arguing against things that are not being said, and continuing to say things that they have been 100% shown to be in error.

tired of circular arguments that go no where.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that is why I do not come by the site as often as I used to, tired of people arguing against things that are not being said, and continuing to say things that they have been 100% shown to be in error.

tired of circular arguments that go no where.

I hear ya

it takes away from true discussion

it makes it unprofitable and actually boring and feeds the slanderers. And people seeing it hurts them if they truly seek

 

[Judges1318]

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. It's a warning to the unrighteous who practice such sins and it's not hard to find such people mix in with believers "claiming" to be believers.

Also, in Galatians 5:19-21, we read - Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. *Descriptive of the unrighteous/unbelievers.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

There are genuine Christians and there are nominal Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

That's why we should not turn away from faith in Christ and toward justification by any other way. If you fall away from faith in Christ you will eventually make Christ of no benefit to you and you will become the unrighteous person that doesn't inherit the kingdom. Christ's blood doesn't cover anyone who doesn't believe in it.

 

[Judges1318]

The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

I agree. The Galatians at the time the letter was written had not yet lost the chance to come back to their senses. But the point is, Paul made it clear that you lose the benefit of Christ in justification if you stop believing in Christ and turn to another gospel.

In Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty. How could Paul truly say that whom He justified, these He also glorified if born again Christians who are justified could lose their justification? I'm still looking for the specific words, "lose or lost salvation" in the Bible, but those specific words are nowhere to be found.

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree. The Galatians at the time the letter was written had not yet lost the chance to come back to their senses. But the point is, Paul made it clear that you lose the benefit of Christ in justification if you stop believing in Christ and turn to another gospel.



Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Nice twist

love how people make stuff up

Christ becoming no effect, meaning his saving grace never occured not that it was lost

 

[Judges1318]

no, but you do everything to try to KEEP salvation and not lose it

No, silly, I'm not doing 'everything' to keep my salvation, lol.I'm staying in faith in Christ, apart from works, for justification. That's how you keep your salvation. Don't leave him for another gospel.

your like the Galatians, thinking you began in the spirit, but must perfect in the flesh.yes you may not follow parts of the law to keep your salvation, but you still work hard to not lose your salvation, and condemn people who trust god who has perfected them and IS sanctifying them, inspite of their weaknesses and loving sin.

I don't 'work hard' to not lose my salvation, lol. I just keep trusting in Christ's blood for my justification. That's not working hard to be saved and stay saved. That's not 'another' gospel, lol. Faith in Christ for justification, apart from works, is the gospel. That is the gospel I'm defending. What you can't accept is that Paul said you can't turn to another gospel after being saved and still have the benefit of Christ in justification.

you may fool some, but most will not be fooled by what you really teach

The road to life is very narrow. Few will acknowledge what I'm saying and will continue to think they can have a 'faith' that allows them to live in their old lives while they remain saved. Paul set the Galatians straight on this matter. Ultimately, you can't go backwards from Christ, casting him behind you, and still be saved. You can't cast away the justification that you received through faith in Christ and still have the justification you received in Christ.

 

[Judges1318]

Nice twist

love how people make stuff up

Christ becoming no effect, meaning his saving grace never occured not that it was lost

Paul said the Galatians were saved. His saving grace did occur for them. And he warned these saved, Spirit filled Galatians that to turn to another gospel makes justification in Christ of no effect for them.

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Few will 'see' these plain words of scripture and be saved. Most will close their eyes to them and be lost.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

The reality is salvation is through faith and those who profess to know God must continue in the gospel until the end, which is what salvation is!.

The reality is that we are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:4-9
Butc God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boas

Those who are saved by God through faith in Jesus Christ are kept by the power of God unto salvation.

1 Peter 1:5
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Yes, salvation is of God and not of man. He does the saving and the work of salvation.

Acts 4:12
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Okay, but what does that have to do with my post? xD, since its in agreement.. is there some contradiction your seeing?
Im just confused, since you quoted me.

No they are not in agreement, and yes you are confused.
My post says it's all about God from start to finish, your post has a "lemon twist" of man working for salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, silly, I'm not doing 'everything' to keep my salvation, lol.I'm staying in faith in Christ, apart from works, for justification. That's how you keep your salvation. Don't leave him for another gospel.

see, it’s your power not gods, its you doing this, not god doing this.

when will you admit this?

I don't 'work hard' to not lose my salvation, lol. I just keep trusting in Christ's blood for my justification. That's not working hard to be saved and stay saved. That's not 'another' gospel, lol. Faith in Christ for justification, apart from works, is the gospel. That is the gospel I'm defending. What you can't accept is that Paul said you can't turn to another gospel after being saved and still have the benefit of Christ in justification.

boy you have lied to yourself.

The road to life is very narrow. Few will acknowledge what I'm saying and will continue to think they can have a 'faith' that allows them to live in their old lives while they remain saved. Paul set the Galatians straight on this matter. Ultimately, you can't go backwards from Christ, casting him behind you, and still be saved. You can't cast away the justification that you received through faith in Christ and still have the justification you received in Christ.

no, the gate is narrow, you must enter the gate.

once have Entered (led by Christ) your in, sealed by the spirit

as the author of hebrews says

he has perfected forever those he is sanctifying

godperected me forever, that’s called justification, that can not be broken, because god did it,I can never earn it

once again, John said those who left the church as unbelievers were never saved,if they were truly saved, they never would have left 1 John 2.

you need to stop thinking you are not trying to earn your salvation.
it’s the work of god we believe, not our work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul said the Galatians were saved. His saving grace did occur for them. And he warned these saved, Spirit filled Galatians that to turn to another gospel makes justification in Christ of no effect for them.

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Few will 'see' these plain words of scripture and be saved. Most will close their eyes to them and be lost.

No, he never said all the Galatians going to the church at Galatia were saved, thats your twist