Not By Works

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Macabeus said:
If you don’t think repentance brings change to people’s minds about about sinful acts. I don’t know what to tell you.

My mind sure changed about drugs, Godhating, stealing, lying, blasphemy. Etc. when Gods grace touched me I didn’t want to do those things any more

Change of mind

You are teaching faith as a mere decision to believe, which by itself, without grace is powerless. I am teaching faith that results in a radical work of Grace. That’s the difference
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Yes. To say "I have faith" without any change in your life is just a lie, and it makes a mockery of the Holy Spirit, how can the Holy Spirit live in you and nothing changes? That is what the book of James is all about. Perhaps some people had misunderstood what Paul was teaching? Faith alone for justification, yet the faith that justifies is never alone. < Look up who said it. It is not a works salvationist, I will give you that much of a hint
 
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Macabeus said:
Correct.

Here’s my point.

Some people look at faith as a decision to believe. That is part of it, but what I see is a salvation that is more than a decision to believe. I believe that salvation is both an epiphany and a spiritual resurrection.

We are saved because the God we did not know manifested Himself to us. And then we believed. And then we were regenerated, justified, etc

The scripture says that God is found by those who were not looking for Him. Maybe not true for everyone, but definitely true of me

I would never had come to Christ except I was drawn. I was a God hater. And one night, my eyes were opened, instantly. And at that moment, and not a moment sooner, I believed

So the change and belief were pretty much at the same time and instantaneous.

When one hears the Gospel, there is a work of drawing, and in some it produces belief and others it doesn’t. Why? I do knot know, but I know tis so
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Macabeus said:
Correct.

Here’s my point.

Some people look at faith as a decision to believe. That is part of it, but what I see is a salvation that is more than a decision to believe. I believe that salvation is both an epiphany and a spiritual resurrection.

We are saved because the God we did not know manifested Himself to us. And then we believed. And then we were regenerated, justified, etc

The scripture says that God is found by those who were not looking for Him. Maybe not true for everyone, but definitely true of me

I would never had come to Christ except I was drawn. I was a God hater. And one night, my eyes were opened, instantly. And at that moment, and not a moment sooner, I believed

So the change and belief were pretty much at the same time and instantaneous.

When one hears the Gospel, there is a work of drawing, and in some it produces belief and others it doesn’t. Why? I do knot know, but I know tis so

Hopefully this will be my last post.
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TooFastTurtle said:
Yes. To say "I have faith" without any change in your life is just a lie, and it makes a mockery of the Holy Spirit, how can the Holy Spirit live in you and nothing changes? That is what the book of James is all about. Perhaps some people had misunderstood what Paul was teaching? Faith alone for justification, yet the faith that justifies is never alone. < Look up who said it. It is not a works salvationist, I will give you that much of a hint
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You hit the nail on the head
 
Macabeus said:
Luther’s argument was JUSTIFICATION by faith alone. I disagree with Luther on a lot of things, but he got that right.

Justified by faith alone. But justification alone is not salvation. It is one part of many aspects of salvation

God is doing things BEFORE and AFTER we believe

Spurgeon had it right. All of GRACE

People here conflate justification with salvation. They are not synonomous any more than wheel and spoke of wheel are synonomous. 🙂

Works do not save but follow as a result of our new nature.
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I disagree with your statement on Justification. Our Justification is NOT because of something we did, BUT BECAUSE OF WHAT CHRIST DID ON THE CROSS, that secured our Justification. The way you stated it, seems like you are putting the entire Justification on what we did.



Romans 5:15-18 (HCSB)
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if by the one man’s trespass the many died, how much more have the grace of God and the gift overflowed to the many by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ.
16 And the gift is not like the one man’s sin, because from one sin came the judgment, resulting in condemnation, but from many trespasses came the gift, resulting in justification.
17 Since by the one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the overflow of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18 So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is life-giving justification for everyone.

Romans 4:25 (HCSB)
25 He was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Romans 3:23-24 (HCSB)
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:30 (HCSB)
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Titus 3:7 (HCSB)
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
 
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VCO said:
I disagree with your statement on Justification. Our Justification is NOT because of something we did, BUT BECAUSE OF WHAT CHRIST DID ON THE CROSS, that secured our Justification. The way you stated it, seems like you are putting the entire Justification on what we did.



Romans 5:15-18 (HCSB)
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if by the one man’s trespass the many died, how much more have the grace of God and the gift overflowed to the many by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ.
16 And the gift is not like the one man’s sin, because from one sin came the judgment, resulting in condemnation, but from many trespasses came the gift, resulting in justification.
17 Since by the one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the overflow of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18 So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is life-giving justification for everyone.

Romans 4:25 (HCSB)
25 He was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Romans 3:23-24 (HCSB)
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:30 (HCSB)
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Titus 3:7 (HCSB)
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
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Good point. Acknowledged. You are absolutely correct. Believers are justified because of Christs fulfilling of the Law and atoning sacrifice

I hope people read your post

Good post.
 
VCO said:
I disagree with your statement on Justification. Our Justification is NOT because of something we did, BUT BECAUSE OF WHAT CHRIST DID ON THE CROSS, that secured our Justification. The way you stated it, seems like you are putting the entire Justification on what we did.



Romans 5:15-18 (HCSB)
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if by the one man’s trespass the many died, how much more have the grace of God and the gift overflowed to the many by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ.
16 And the gift is not like the one man’s sin, because from one sin came the judgment, resulting in condemnation, but from many trespasses came the gift, resulting in justification.
17 Since by the one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the overflow of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18 So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is life-giving justification for everyone.

Romans 4:25 (HCSB)
25 He was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Romans 3:23-24 (HCSB)
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:30 (HCSB)
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Titus 3:7 (HCSB)
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
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I said justified by faith alone and you disagreed. Cool. The way you put it, you are correct

You must really disagree with saved by faith alone, then, I can imagine.

Nice to have another outspoken saved by grace believer as taught in the Bible. . Not many hang out here
 
UnderGrace said:
Listen Mac


This is what @dcontroversal stated.... I forgot to get the link



I agree with him completely!!

The thing is this he keeps it simple and you are trying to complicate by adding in that works will by necessity follow.

And if I am understanding him correctly he is stating that at the moment of salvation...NO WORKS... works or no works saved, because saved is saved and is not connected to works.
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Exactly......
 
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dcontroversal said:
Exactly......
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😂😂. Keep reading DC. I didn’t take issue to what you said, I took issue because what it was said in response to. Click to your quote and see what you’re responding to

Oh and if you haven’t gotten past this post yet, you’re going to love what’s coming in later posts.

Like when you blunder heatedly accused me of calling GB9 insane. )false, and I proved it( and like when you literally took exception and mocked me when I quoted a verse. 😂
 
dcontroversal said:
To the one that does not work ia clear....HIS FAITH IS CREDITED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS
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Tell it to your buddy , eternally grateful. That quote that Undergrace quoted was a direct quote from him on a post you liked. You gave it a thumbs up. 😂😂🤪🤪

Poor DC. Always contradicting himself.


So does eternally grateful corrupt the gospel because he said it is impossible for a Christian not to work😮
 
Macabeus said:
Because you’re not able to do ANYTHING. Your replies are juvenile and feeble

For DC, who can’t understand english, I said his replies are juvenile, not him
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You don’t call the shots around here, Norman. I’ll be happy to answer the question, quite successfully I might add, when I feel like it.
 
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