Not By Works

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UnderGrace said:
So someone without visible works is not saved..... completely disagree, Sorry:(
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I cannot alleviate the two following truths......

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
 
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dcontroversal said:
I cannot alleviate the two following truths......

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
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Strawman!

Not really. Just felt like saying it. 🙄
 
Macabeus said:
Did you know that jesus asked Peter two times if he loved him (agape). But Peter replied that he was fond of Jesus. (Different love, Phileo). In my own study, I think that Peter was hesitant to profess agape, because of his failing in denying Jesus. So the third time Jesus uses phileo instead of agapeo

Then he tells Peter that next time he won’t deny Him, and prophecies that Peter will lay down his life for his faith one day

Jesus was healing Peters broken and discouraged heart. And saying in effect. You were weak, but from henceforth, YOU WILL BE THE ROCK that I named you

The day of Pentecost then changed Peter into a bold, uncompromising soldier for Christ

Not what the sermon was about, but what I got out of personal reading this morning
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HAHAH You cannot even begin to surmise why Peter said what Peter said.....wow man....
 
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VCO said:
John 14:15 (NASB)
15 "If you love Me [ARE BORN AGAIN], you will keep [.WANT TO KEEP IT OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.] My commandments.

[.NO AND'S, IF'S, OR MAYBE'S AT ALL. THAT IS WILL WANT TO OBEY HIM OUT OF LOVE, AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE THEIR. NO, WE ARE NOT PERFECT, BUT THAT STRIVING TO OBEY HIM OUT OF LOVE WILL BE OBVIOUS. IT IS PART OF "LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE."]

You do KNOW, that theology you just presented is PART OF THE LIBERAL EVANGELICAL theology ?
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This is the eternal security I have no problem with whatsoever. Keep going
 
NO man can earn or keep eternal life by saying they keep that which NO man keeps...…...NO MAN that has ever lived other than JESUS has or will keep the law/commandments.....any that say they do are false and any that think they do are sadly mistaken.....

There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.

END of story.....
 
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dcontroversal said:
NO man can earn or keep eternal life by saying they keep that which NO man keeps...…...NO MAN that has ever lived other than JESUS has or will keep the law/commandments.....any that say they do are false and any that think they do are sadly mistaken.....

There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.

END of story.....
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That begs the question then, why does the Bible in the New Testament (not the law) tell us that some ARE in fact obedient? The same was the case in the OC. Where in your theology is there room for the "good and faithful servant" if everyone is vile and wicked to the core? You guys talk about God not being strong enough to save and we are saving ourselves but my goodness. What you preach about God has God completely unable to transform people whatsoever, everyone remains a vile wicked devil even though the Holy Spirit of God has moved in, no change required whatsoever. Why doesn't God clean up these people? We keep hearing about the "process" of sanctification but this seems to never ever happen in practice. The reason for this is because its not up to God to repent for us, we have to repent, God tells us to do it.

Just because MOST people do not obey, does not mean everyone is disobedient. Notice also the Bible is not speaking about sinless perfection, but it is talking about a saint whose heart and conscience is purified and is a vessel purified for the master's use. A man or woman who strives for righteousness and loves the things of the world to come, and loves not this present world.

The people who are in rebellion towards God and love the world are not saved. The Scriptures are crystal clear on that.
 
TooFastTurtle said:
That begs the question then, why does the Bible in the New Testament (not the law) tell us that some ARE in fact obedient? The same was the case in the OC.

Just because MOST people do not obey, does not mean everyone is disobedient. Notice also the Bible is not speaking about sinless perfection, but it is talking about a saint whose heart and conscience is purified and is a vessel purified for the master's use. A man or woman who strives for righteousness and loves the things of the world to come, and loves not this present world.

The people who are in rebellion towards God and love the world are not saved. The Scriptures are crystal clear on that.
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False, false and false.....NEXT

Break the least = guilty of the WHOLE....NO MAN except JESUS has kept them ALL...……..nice try but still false....

NONE good NO NOT ONE <---N.T.
ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD <--NT

Not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not <--OT

You lawyers, Pharisees and salvation losers and workers for really need to pick your game up.....because you constantly contradict the word of God by what you peddle
 
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If we purify ourselves and repent (yes you, Bible says this in James and Timothy, dont act surprised) you will be a good vessel for the Master's use. When we do that, God will energize our efforts and prune us and we will produce even more fruit and we will show forth the works of God through our daily lives. God WILL energize our efforts and has given us all the tools required for us to overcome the world the flesh and the devil, God gave HIMSELF for us. We have the Holy Spirit of God within us, if that is not good enough for us to repent and be transformed and be righteous and manifest the works of God and obedience, then you just have the wrong theology and are teaching a serious error.

If we do the opposite, if we are disobeying God willfully and defiantly, God is not going to play games and will give us over to a reprobate mind, and our conscience will become seared and like Esau we cannot find repentance even if we seek it with tears. This is the danger of easy-believism, instead of examining if they are in the faith and being doers of the word and not hearers only people are told they are saved no matter what. The Pastor has already preached them into the Kingdom. In the long run the conscience of these people can become seared with a hot iron, no longer able to repent and God will send a strong delusion.
 
dcontroversal said:
False, false and false.....NEXT

Break the least = guilty of the WHOLE....NO MAN except JESUS has kept them ALL...……..nice try but still false....

NONE good NO NOT ONE <---N.T.
ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD <--NT

Not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not <--OT

You lawyers, Pharisees and salvation losers and workers for really need to pick your game up.....because you constantly contradict the word of God by what you peddle
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And you dont contradict it? I have posted countless verses proving no obedience equals no salvation. Hatred for your brother equals no salvation. Not keeping the commandments equals you have a false profession of faith.

I would advice against being so arrogant, but this seems to be your schtick here. Very unchristlike. And dont quote the verse where Jesus called pharisees brood of vipers. I am not an unbeliever, so I would appreciate some respect, you are talking to a man who believes in Jesus, not an unbelieving pharisee. Christians are supposed to be known for the way they treat each other and you are giving the world and other Christians a horrible picture, but then again, with what you teach it does not really matter how you behave, no effect on salvation whatsoever, despite the Bible teaching loving your neighbor is very important when it comes to being saved

If nobody keeps the commandments perfectly how can the book of Revelation say here are those who KEEP the commandments of God and the faith of Christ? You are just picking a verse here and a verse there, trying to proof-text disobedience as the norm. But if you took a read at those proof-texts you would quickly notice, the same book which says break the least guilty of the whole also teaches to purify ourselves and be doers and not hearers only deceiving yourself.
 
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Another misnomer used by those that must help JESUS..... ---> easy-believism No such thing......Be not removed from the simplicity found in Christ <---HE that believes on the SON is having everlasting life

FOLKS.....do not let these people that devalue JESUS, his word, power and promises remove you from that which is SIMPLE...….

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

SOME on this thread would have you jumping hoops like a Poodle in a dog show at West Minister.....do not be fooled by their deception
 
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What am I gonna do?! My container of iced coffee is almost gone, and my sinless perfection is at risk.. oh the horror!!! :eek::eek:

Fortunately I have hot coffee K-cups, so my sinless perfection CAN be maintained after all.. :love:


amen (2).jpg
 
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TooFastTurtle said:
And you dont contradict it? I have posted countless verses proving no obedience equals no salvation. Hatred for your brother equals no salvation. Not keeping the commandments equals you have a false profession of faith.

I would advice against being so arrogant, but this seems to be your schtick here. Very unchristlike. And dont quote the verse where Jesus called pharisees brood of vipers. I am not an unbeliever, so I would appreciate some respect, you are talking to a man who believes in Jesus, not an unbelieving pharisee.

If nobody keeps the commandments perfectly how can the book of Revelation say here are those who KEEP the commandments of God and the faith of Christ? You are just picking a verse here and a verse there, trying to proof-text disobedience as the norm. But if you took a read at those proof-texts you would quickly notice, the same book which says break the least guilty of the whole also teaches to purify ourselves and be doers and not hearers only deceiving yourself.
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BLAH BLAH BLAH......faith into ChrIst is what saves a man eternally....not the religious hoop jumping you sell.....
 
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TooFastTurtle said:
That begs the question then, why does the Bible in the New Testament (not the law) tell us that some ARE in fact obedient? The same was the case in the OC. Where in your theology is there room for the "good and faithful servant" if everyone is vile and wicked to the core? You guys talk about God not being strong enough to save and we are saving ourselves but my goodness. What you preach about God has God completely unable to transform people whatsoever, everyone remains a vile wicked devil even though the Holy Spirit of God has moved in, no change required whatsoever. Why doesn't God clean up these people? We keep hearing about the "process" of sanctification but this seems to never ever happen in practice. The reason for this is because its not up to God to repent for us, we have to repent, God tells us to do it.

Just because MOST people do not obey, does not mean everyone is disobedient. Notice also the Bible is not speaking about sinless perfection, but it is talking about a saint whose heart and conscience is purified and is a vessel purified for the master's use. A man or woman who strives for righteousness and loves the things of the world to come, and loves not this present world.

The people who are in rebellion towards God and love the world are not saved. The Scriptures are crystal clear on that.
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Where did he say everyone is vile and wicked to the core? If he did I missed it.
 
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dcontroversal said:
BLAH BLAH BLAH......faith into ChrIst is what saves a man eternally....not the religious hoop jumping you sell.....
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Religious hoop jumping is what you call what the Bible teaches a man must do. Horrible attitude and no respect whatsoever, the fruit of easy believism on display, arrogance, pride, hate, malice, slander, you name it the easy-believism nochange gospel produces it.

I would love to hear an apology, if not, I will not even try to communicate with you anymore, I will forgive you however and hope and pray that you have not seared your conscience yet to the point of no repentance from sitting under false teaching.
 
Therefore ,we conclude that a man is hustified BY FAITH WITHOUT the deeds/works of the LAW

NO MAN is justified before GOD by the deeds or works of the law/commandments.....why....because NO ONE keeps them 100% and are already condemned by that which they think in their mind they keep.....
 
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TooFastTurtle said:
Religious hoop jumping is what you call what the Bible teaches a man must do. Horrible attitude and no respect whatsoever, the fruit of easy believism on display, arrogance, pride, hate, malice, slander, you name it the easy-believism nochange gospel produces it.

I would love to hear an apology, if not, I will not even try to communicate with you anymore, I will forgive you however and hope and pray that you have not seared your conscience yet to the point of no repentance from sitting under false teaching.
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There ya go.....throwing around misnomers again.....and accusing....NO what I stand against is your corrupted gospel...….which is as false as it comes according to the bible....
 
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The bible is clear.....faith plus law keeping is a false gospel of a different kind with no power to save....those that peddle it are double cursed, those that believe it are fools and bewitched....

Galatians....O FOOLISH GALATIANS who has bewitched you <----the ones peddling faith plus law for.........
 
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So you guys believe that doing what Paul or Jesus or John says is keeping the law? That explains a lot of the confusion.

The Law would be the Torah... Some commandments apply in both covenants, some dont.

If the commandments are not there to be kept and are not required for salvation why does the Bible say so? I did not write it, I am simply reading from it.
 
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