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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I think he did leave for a while. which makes the fact that he came back and immediately started ranting about posts from 6 months ago more sad.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
He did not leave right away, he kept on, one of the reasons i blocked him,, he probably left for a bit after that, i have not heard people speak of him for awhile
that man just cant let things go lolz.
its like my bitter ex. will never let me alone its been a century
there is people protesting something downtown. all the time its something blocking traffic they are building a tram train transport system
if you want those protestors to leave just throw a job application at them.
if you want those protestors to leave just throw a job application at them.
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UnderGrace
Guest
Son: “Dad, am I really your son, or am I only adopted?”
Father: “Well, young man, it depends on how you behave. If you really are my son, you will show this by doing the things I tell you to do. If you have my nature inside of you, you can’t help but be obedient.”
Son: “But what if I disobey you a lot, Dad?”
Father: “Then you have every reason to doubt that you are truly my son!”
Thankfully this is not what scripture teaches!!
Father: “Well, young man, it depends on how you behave. If you really are my son, you will show this by doing the things I tell you to do. If you have my nature inside of you, you can’t help but be obedient.”
Son: “But what if I disobey you a lot, Dad?”
Father: “Then you have every reason to doubt that you are truly my son!”
Thankfully this is not what scripture teaches!!
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UnderGrace
Guest
A Judgmental Spirit
As if the results already mentioned were not enough, lordship salvation also promotes a judgmental and pharisaical spirit within the church. How tempting it is to our sinful flesh to believe that we have a right to say to a failing professing believer, “You are really not good enough to be on your way to heaven!”
Of course, this point is rarely put in so stark a form. But no matter how carefully the matter is disguised in religious jargon, or obscured by sophisticated theology, the sad fact remains the same. Lordship teaching reserves to itself the right to strip professing Christians of their claims to faith and to consign such people to the ranks of the lost.
To be sure, there is much reason to think that there are multitudes of people in churches today who have never really been saved. But this is due to their failure to understand the gospel offer, or to accept it. The fact that a person falls below the moral standards laid down in God’s word is always tragic and deplorable. But it is not necessarily a proof that one is also unsaved. Is there any Christian who does not have areas of failure which he or she must seek God’s grace to overcome?
But lordship thought is not satisfied to simply insist that some conversion experiences are not valid. Nearly everyone would agree to that. Instead, lordship doctrine even goes so far as to disallow an individual’s claim to personal trust in Christ on the ground that their life is so unworthy that the claim could not be true.
But the price paid for the privilege of making this kind of judgment is enormously high. The cost is nothing less than a radical rewriting of the gospel proclaimed by the Lord and by His apostles. And this leads to a complete reshaping of the concept of “saving faith.” The result is that what passes for faith in lordship thought is no longer recognizable as the biblical quality that goes by the same name.
It may even be said that lordship salvation throws a veil of obscurity over the entire New Testament revelation. In the process, the marvelous truth of justification by faith, apart from works, recedes into shadows not unlike those which darkened the days before the Reformation. What replaces this doctrine is a kind of faith/works synthesis which differs only insignificantly from official Roman Catholic dogma.
Zane Hodges, Absolutely Free! A Biblical Reply to Lordship Salvation (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1989), 17-20.
As if the results already mentioned were not enough, lordship salvation also promotes a judgmental and pharisaical spirit within the church. How tempting it is to our sinful flesh to believe that we have a right to say to a failing professing believer, “You are really not good enough to be on your way to heaven!”
Of course, this point is rarely put in so stark a form. But no matter how carefully the matter is disguised in religious jargon, or obscured by sophisticated theology, the sad fact remains the same. Lordship teaching reserves to itself the right to strip professing Christians of their claims to faith and to consign such people to the ranks of the lost.
To be sure, there is much reason to think that there are multitudes of people in churches today who have never really been saved. But this is due to their failure to understand the gospel offer, or to accept it. The fact that a person falls below the moral standards laid down in God’s word is always tragic and deplorable. But it is not necessarily a proof that one is also unsaved. Is there any Christian who does not have areas of failure which he or she must seek God’s grace to overcome?
But lordship thought is not satisfied to simply insist that some conversion experiences are not valid. Nearly everyone would agree to that. Instead, lordship doctrine even goes so far as to disallow an individual’s claim to personal trust in Christ on the ground that their life is so unworthy that the claim could not be true.
But the price paid for the privilege of making this kind of judgment is enormously high. The cost is nothing less than a radical rewriting of the gospel proclaimed by the Lord and by His apostles. And this leads to a complete reshaping of the concept of “saving faith.” The result is that what passes for faith in lordship thought is no longer recognizable as the biblical quality that goes by the same name.
It may even be said that lordship salvation throws a veil of obscurity over the entire New Testament revelation. In the process, the marvelous truth of justification by faith, apart from works, recedes into shadows not unlike those which darkened the days before the Reformation. What replaces this doctrine is a kind of faith/works synthesis which differs only insignificantly from official Roman Catholic dogma.
Zane Hodges, Absolutely Free! A Biblical Reply to Lordship Salvation (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1989), 17-20.
i try ask this same question again from all conditional security/salvation losers:
you say we can lose salvation? ok.
what about hebrews 6:4-6? it says you cant get it back so why do you guys always teach that you can get it back too? i have never gotten reply to this. reason i suspect they always say you can get it back is because they have sinned willfully and hebrews 10:26 got them. so now they need to somehow get it back as well. take the alter call again give their life to Jesus again.
you say we can lose salvation? ok.
what about hebrews 6:4-6? it says you cant get it back so why do you guys always teach that you can get it back too? i have never gotten reply to this. reason i suspect they always say you can get it back is because they have sinned willfully and hebrews 10:26 got them. so now they need to somehow get it back as well. take the alter call again give their life to Jesus again.
Who are you addressing? Who said anything about losing salvation? I didn’t notice anyone say that.
anyone who believs that. usually there is atleast one person here believing that
Ok. Your comment was just kind of out of the blue or out of thin air, and it seemed like you were responding to someone by your wording
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yep, so i let him go and am allowing god to work (i hope)
Sometimes that works, sometimes it does not
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No, but this is what satan wants you to think in doing so he creates doubt, when you doubt, you can not be used in the battle, and are thus taken out..
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UnderGrace
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
When an army is in battle, and someone is in fear and does not trust himself, he is rendered useless, or taken out, he is actually more dangerous to his unit, then if he was fighting
This is what satan does, remember we are in a war,
i make many out of blue and out of thin air comments.
i hate starting my own topics so to me this topic is like my own place to say or ask what i want. its 5000 pages long so all has been dealt with here.
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UnderGrace
Guest
Are we? ... I thought the war was won... we were given an instruction manual on how to be victorious
Ok, fair enough. I was just checking. Because the context of the discussion was on effects/results of regeneration, and there is always at least one person here who thinks holding to an effectual regeneration, ie one that produces a new nature leading to a new way of life is the same as works salvation or Losable salvation. And they argue against effectual regeneration by using justification passages, which is a red herring. Because justification and regeneration have different aspects.
This is why I do not let it go, because this imbalance of justification being used to diminish the scriptural teaching in numerous places of the effects and results of regeneration, is pernicious and deadly
It creates a sense of being justified while ignoring what the scripture says about the qualities of regenerate people. Plus people keep trotting out the same red herring.
I know people deny it, but it amounts to easy believism. Profession of faith justifies without real inward change. If the outside does not change, it is evidence of no inward change. For as one thinks in his heart, so is he.
And people confirm it by demonstrating antinomianism by name calling and af hominems, which are not fitting for people who profess to know Christ
amen i believe in easy believism. and once saved always saved. i quote what i said in other topic:
its easy to be saved
its as easy as:
drinking a glass of water:
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
eating:
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
entering through a door:
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
looking:
John 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.