U
UnderGrace
Guest
This was my response to MMD when he gave a sad face on my post about Smooth.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
This was my response to MMD when he gave a sad face on my post about Smooth.
You must be delusional Petey if you believe one word of what you have written here......................and make no mistake.....you absolutely traduce and disparage the gospel truth as well as denigrate and depreciate it by your stance.......and just like the prophets of old......I absolutely cannot stand your skewed view of the bible..........
OSAS is the absolute TRUTH, and I can prove it. I absolutely believe that You Have to seek an interpretation that DOES NOT CREATE CONTRADICTIONS.
The answer is in the Parable of the GATES, and on BOTH of the ROADS, everyone who entered, thought they were on the RIGHT ROAD, and sincerely thought they were Christians. However, the majority who entered the WIDE Easy Gate, that leads to the Destruction in Hades/Hell; the Destruction that Lord talked about in this verse: "fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Mat 10:28 (HCSB)
Matthew 7:7 (HCSB)
7 “Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find. Keep knocking, and the door will be opened to you."
Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
Matthew 7:13-14 (ESV)
13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
EACH GATE HAS A LABEL "THIS WAY TO HEAVEN", and NON-christians were not included in the Parables of the Gates.
One accommodates many people and many false theories on what qualifies you as a Christian. Thus that way is EASY or BROAD, and would accommodate all kinds of worldly baggage, and false theories. They have entered the WRONG GATE.
THE MANY will say, just accept JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOR and you are SAVED.
Revelation 2:16 (NRSV)
16 Repent [mourn over your Utter Sinfulness, turning about face to GOD.] then. If not, I will come to you soon and make war against them with the sword of my mouth.
Revelation 3:19 (NRSV)
19 I reprove and discipline those whom I love. Be earnest, therefore, and repent.
Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART [Human Spirit]"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess [NOT JUST PROFESS] with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart [Human Spirit] that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses [something that is absolutely true about your born again human spirit], resulting in salvation.
NOTICE: YOU HAD to have a Personal Experience with the LORD Jesus Christ, IN YOUR HEART [Human Spirit]. BEFORE YOU CAN SAY IT AS A CONFESSION, otherwise it is only a Profession, which will not Save you. REPENTANCE GOES HAND IN HAND WITH CONFESSING HIM AS LORD, WHICH MEANS MASTER.
NOW BEFORE ANYONE SCREAMS "THAT IS WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS", I will prove that it is a work of the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 (NIV)
4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you,
5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power,
with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.
DEEP CONVICTION is of the HOLY SPIRIT. What's the difference between normal sorrow for sinfulness, and the Holy Spirit bringing deep conviction to your heart, pertaining to all your sinfulness? You will know the difference!
Back to the Parable of the GATES. How Many does it say FOUND THE NARROW GATE? It says: "few find it."
On the following website, you will find a Chart of:
Yet of all the Religious Groups in America,
https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/
That is 70.6 percentage of the people associated with a church of any kind, call themselves CHRISTIANS.
The non believing part of Americans add up to 46.3 percent. That MEANS, there are a Mulitude of CHRISTIANS who only THINK they are Saved and they truly are not, compared to only a FEW, who KNOW that they actually are Saved.
What is the main stumbling block besides PRIDE? It is they do not want to surrender complete control of their lives to the LORD out of LOVE. The want to remain in control (self-lordship) of their lives, and only want a Savior, and not a LORD who will RULE their LIVES, when you willingly SURRENDER TO HIM.
SO ONCE WE HAVE RECEIVED HIM AS LORD, HE IS THE GUARANTEE, NOT US, WHO INSURES WE WILL BE CALLED OUT TO GO TO THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB. Nothing we can do or not do, will enhance our chances.
Hence we interpret this verse:
John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me [happens only when you are truly Born Again],
you will keep My commands. [That desire to OBEY HIM is a permanent desire of the Born Again Human Spirit, via the Holy Spirit in us.]
Anyone who thinks OSAS gives him the right to live like the devil, is not a true OSAS BELIEVER, he too is on the Wide Easy Road.
Here are some of the verses that support OSAS, and there are a lot more.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:19 (HCSB)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, having this inscription: The Lord knows those who are His, and Everyone who names the name of the Lord must turn away from unrighteousness.
John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.
Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Titus 3:5-6 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
John 14:16-17 (ASV)
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever,
17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.
Thank you my friend. When are you going to accept love and Jesus are not held within your constraints. We await the Lord's judgement, until then I bless you in Christ.
If you honour His word and His name, amen. I can but share my path. Jesus shared, people heared some followed. Nothing has really changed.
Your antagonism is yours, and your inability to see another in love. But we all have our weaknesses. God bless you.
Prophet's of old preached against sin, murder, theft, adultery. They were messengers of God's judgement. If God's people claim to have His word but deny His path, they will be trodden under foot, like salt without saltiness.
Some like the flag, swing their sword yet miss it all. Wealth, self indulgence, greed are washing many away, deaf to the poverty within, dying lonely without friends, hope or support, a very sad end, God bless you
Some like the flag, swing their sword yet miss it all. Wealth, self indulgence, greed are washing many away, deaf to the poverty within, dying lonely without friends, hope or support, a very sad end, God bless you
A typical testimony. I was lost in sin and dispair. I met Jesus, he forgave me, washed me, I repented, put faith in the cross of Christ and moved from this world to the Kingdom of light. Now I walk with Him, in His ways with His love guiding my path, with joy and praise in the family of God, brothers and sisters in Christ Amen
This is repeated church after church. It is our faith. Funnily calling this names, wrong etc is not going to change our reality, we are in Him our Lord and Saviour, amen
I call all who are warmed by the Lord's promise to repent and follow, it is the only way, Amen
This is repeated church after church. It is our faith. Funnily calling this names, wrong etc is not going to change our reality, we are in Him our Lord and Saviour, amen
I call all who are warmed by the Lord's promise to repent and follow, it is the only way, Amen
Not here to agitate the already emotionally charged but my advice is, don't get attached to an idea, try to be open.
If you become attached to an idea which you think is truth, then to you, everything else is satanic. Humility demands that as much as you hold firm to the 'truth' you now have, you should be quick to listen but slow to respond; This manner allows you to reflect and audit your own position with regards to the other person's view.
Having that final stand, 'that i must be right, everything else must be wrong' is just part of the problem. The main problem comes from the 'major words' which forms the basis of a doctrine; Misunderstanding and misapplying just one such word throws everything off, no matter how many verses you quote, the doctrine is already off because of the misapplication of the word even if the verses you quote, contains those words.
A good example of such words is 'Free Gift'. Consider the following examples in explaining a free gift:
1. Giving someone a precious item, worth USD 1,000,000, for USD 1,000, knowing very well they can comfortably afford it.
2. A teacher to 30 students, going out of his way to buy each one of his students a text book before they even become his students. Like buying the books and putting on each desk and waiting the students on the first day to introduce himself as their teacher
3. The same teacher buying 30 books for his students and asking those that are willing, to take the books
Other variables.
A. The recipients in 1/2/3 above take and put the 'gift' in good use
B. The recipients in 1/2/3 above take but don't put the 'gift' in good use
Q. Which combination(s) of 1/2/3 and A/B amounts to free gift?
For the record, i'm not supporting either side (OSAS or NOSAS). My beliefs are are different.
Cont' ....
If you become attached to an idea which you think is truth, then to you, everything else is satanic. Humility demands that as much as you hold firm to the 'truth' you now have, you should be quick to listen but slow to respond; This manner allows you to reflect and audit your own position with regards to the other person's view.
Having that final stand, 'that i must be right, everything else must be wrong' is just part of the problem. The main problem comes from the 'major words' which forms the basis of a doctrine; Misunderstanding and misapplying just one such word throws everything off, no matter how many verses you quote, the doctrine is already off because of the misapplication of the word even if the verses you quote, contains those words.
A good example of such words is 'Free Gift'. Consider the following examples in explaining a free gift:
1. Giving someone a precious item, worth USD 1,000,000, for USD 1,000, knowing very well they can comfortably afford it.
2. A teacher to 30 students, going out of his way to buy each one of his students a text book before they even become his students. Like buying the books and putting on each desk and waiting the students on the first day to introduce himself as their teacher
3. The same teacher buying 30 books for his students and asking those that are willing, to take the books
Other variables.
A. The recipients in 1/2/3 above take and put the 'gift' in good use
B. The recipients in 1/2/3 above take but don't put the 'gift' in good use
Q. Which combination(s) of 1/2/3 and A/B amounts to free gift?
For the record, i'm not supporting either side (OSAS or NOSAS). My beliefs are are different.
Cont' ....
Cont' .....
In my beliefs, everything is just everything, and everything is being created and recreated; can't explain it more but in this view, everything is a work yet everything is spirit.
Scriptural example:
Many come and quote verses trying to explain how salvation is a free gift and they also say, sin and therefore death came through one man (Adam) and affected all, righteousness also comes through one man(Christ).
This can also be argued out that sin is not the works we commit, we were sinners from our mothers wombs based on what Adam did, yet sin is still the works we commit (Murder/ idolatry/adultery/ fornication/ gossiping/ envy/ pride e.t.c)
Salvation also is not the works we commit, we are saved from our mothers wombs based on what Christ did on the cross yet salvation is still the good works we commit. But still you are saved but the next person is judged because they are not saved. Does this mean God's grace is not sufficient for them? Why are you saved and they are not? Is it what they did or did not do that makes them to be judged?
If it is because of what they did or did not do that makes them candidates of hell, is your salvation also because of what you did or did not do?
To me, it's very simple, just abide in Christ; abiding means obeying Him and continue obeying. Obey the commandment to love one another. It has always been about obedience. Sin came through disobedience, righteousness through obedience.
In my beliefs, everything is just everything, and everything is being created and recreated; can't explain it more but in this view, everything is a work yet everything is spirit.
Scriptural example:
Many come and quote verses trying to explain how salvation is a free gift and they also say, sin and therefore death came through one man (Adam) and affected all, righteousness also comes through one man(Christ).
This can also be argued out that sin is not the works we commit, we were sinners from our mothers wombs based on what Adam did, yet sin is still the works we commit (Murder/ idolatry/adultery/ fornication/ gossiping/ envy/ pride e.t.c)
Salvation also is not the works we commit, we are saved from our mothers wombs based on what Christ did on the cross yet salvation is still the good works we commit. But still you are saved but the next person is judged because they are not saved. Does this mean God's grace is not sufficient for them? Why are you saved and they are not? Is it what they did or did not do that makes them to be judged?
If it is because of what they did or did not do that makes them candidates of hell, is your salvation also because of what you did or did not do?
To me, it's very simple, just abide in Christ; abiding means obeying Him and continue obeying. Obey the commandment to love one another. It has always been about obedience. Sin came through disobedience, righteousness through obedience.
You are right, we need to stand in Jesus and His ways, abiding in His love always.
By the grace of God I will not pass judgement of where others stand, than reflect on peoples words and behaviour
and what God says about this. I am not the judge, Gods word is, and in the end our words will either prove us
true or accuse us before His throne.
Paul talked about this simply
3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.
4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
1 Cor 4
How can we stand in the kingdom of God so we never fall, after repenting, being washed and cleansed,
standing in His grace.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things,
you will never fall,
11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1
Amen, Praise the Lord He has provided a way, we just have to follow, so easy, so light a burden,
thank you Jesus.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Remember human nature does not like to take a handout, it goes against our very nature.. thats why people would rather go homeless than have people help them.
Of course, today,, people want stuff for free. But thats the opposite thinking of human nature, they want the cake and eat it too (they want to live in sin and yet be saved also)
Amazing how human nature and response to the gospel are in unity and can be seen clearly. Yet people do not see it..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
It did get nasty between him and least.. Have not seen her either. Maybe they both got warned?
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Feeling frantic maybe and not checking your spelling??
Not judging you say....
U
UnderGrace
Guest
So you are above being accountable and responsible then?
Now for someone who likes to dabble in the psychological side of things consider what you have exposed here
I noticed Smooth's profile is no longer available
I notice he hasn't been banned.. nor does he show as a guest.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
This is called a gentle ban, "user profile not available" as opposed to not having banned right under your name... which still happens though although more rarely.
I stand amazed at those who do not quite understand that the bible is FULL of absolute TRUTHS......SALVATION, JUSTIFICATION, SEALED, positionally sanctified ALL contain the absolute truth that it is BY FAITH these are given unto men and or applied unto men eternally.....
Maybe like a two week probationary ban or something HAHAHThis is called a gentle ban, "user profile not available" as opposed to not having banned right under your name... which still happens though although more rarely.
Good morning Blue.......got a nice hot cup of coffee ready for me with lots of cream and 6 sugars?
HAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAH
Pious holier than thou people probably reported one of his posts.This is called a gentle ban, "user profile not available" as opposed to not having banned right under your name... which still happens though although more rarely.
Probably the telemarketing person he told to do you know what.
Probably thinking "Im glad I do not swear at someone like this sinner"
Plank and spec come to mind.
I hope he is back soon.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Most likely. A few of our brothers have been banned for this very thing..