Not By Works

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Macabeus said:
When a believer is born of God, he or she receives a New nature. But they still have to put off the old man. That is why the scripture says "put off the old man...put on the new." Nature is a collection of attributes.
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See UnderGrace and DC...I believe in the two nature teaching. Just don't see it in 1 John 3. :)
 
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Macabeus said:
I do not agree with Mcarthur if he only believes in one nature. I do not get my theology from John Mcarthur, I get it from the Bible. SO much so that I did not know this about him. And it doesn't matter. Because you can look all you want. The two nature doctrine are NOT mentioned in 1 John 3, which is what we have been talking about.
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Yes Mr. M....it is about the two natures but that is okay you understand and see the broader doctrine ....but I am glad you agree that we receive a new life!!! :)
 
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dcontroversal said:
The problem with Christianity today....NO real power because it has been watered down, believers are easily offended, afraid to OFFEND anyone with the truth, coddling false cults/religions for the sake of trying to win one at the expense of the hard, naked truth........Jesus cut it straight and was not concerned with who got offended at the truth so did John the dipper, PAUL, Elijah etc.........they laid the AX to the root and let the chips fall where they fell......

When anyone that was offended walked away from JESUS he DID NOT coddle them, run them down and beg them to receive the truth.....and this is what Christianity has sunken to........it utterly sickens me........
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Yep, eternally grateful didn't water it down, and WE BOTH agreed with him...so did GB9

eternally-gratefull said:
As I believe Scripture states,

Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.

In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)

Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature.


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Macabeus said:
Yes, and then after justification, we live our lives to God out of love and gratitude, BECAUSE OF OUR NEW NATURE. Not perfectly, but there should be SOME love and gratitude, and concern about other people IF WE ARE BORN OF GOD>

Descriptive of truly regenerate, NOT prescriptive of how to be saved or stay saved. Just a statement of fact about people who have been born of God.
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I can agree with this better than the other approach you had before....Amen!!
 
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gb9 said:
yes, what lordship salvation is basically " pleagianism lite " ( pleagianism ) denies the sin nature, or in some cases, teaches that when one is truly saved, the sin nature is 100% gone, and a person no longer sins at all, and if that do, it is willful rebellion .
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Pelagianism denies the doctrine of Original sin and depravity, and makes man basically neutral. John Mcarthur (Lordship guy most talked about) is a CALVINIST, which is basically the OPPOSITE of Pelagianism.

Believes in original sin.

Believes in depravity.

Believe in drawing grace NECESSARY for salvation.

Believes in security of the believer.

Complete opposite of Pelagianism.
 
Macabeus said:
Yes, and then after justification, we live our lives to God out of love and gratitude, BECAUSE OF OUR NEW NATURE. Not perfectly, but there should be SOME love and gratitude, and concern about other people IF WE ARE BORN OF GOD>

Descriptive of truly regenerate, NOT prescriptive of how to be saved or stay saved. Just a statement of fact about people who have been born of God.
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No need for "truly" One is either born from above or not.

Descriptive of how saints should be.
 
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dcontroversal said:
100% Jesus or it is fraudulent........faith plus for, to keep, maintain, top off or finish salvation = false and lost <---according to scripture......Having begun in the spirit are you now made complete by the flesh (works) <--he calls them fools and bewitched
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Yep, 100% Jesus

regenerated by the Spirit of Jesus
Justified by the blood of Jesus
Saved by the Life of Jesus.
Kept by the power of Jesus
Interceded for by the High Priest Jesus
Sactified by Jesus
Fruitful as we abide in Jesus
Redeemed a people zelous of good works
Created in Christ Jesus unto Good works which God ordained before
Without Christ we can do nothing
with Christ, we can do all things
Christ able to keep us from falling
Will be glorified when we see Him as He is.
Will cast our crowns at His feet.

100% Jesus. BUT ALL 100%, not PICK AND CHOOSE :)
 
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UnderGrace said:
No need for "truly" One is either born from above or not.

Descriptive of how saints should be.
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Truly is there because not everyone who thinks they are born of God actually are. Disclaimer...I am not saying that is ours to determine about other people, let each man or woman examine THEMSELVES.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
“When you hit a wall. Attack with slander/ That will get them, and you are exonerated and live to fight another day”

Sadly, I see it far to often in people.
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I hit a wall by basically saying what you already said? AND DC AND GB9 AGREED TO?

eternally-gratefull said:
As I believe Scripture states,

Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.

In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)

Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature.


ALL (6) POSITIVE (6)
 
Macabeus said:
Truly is there because not everyone who thinks they are born of God actually are. Disclaimer...I am not saying that is ours to determine about other people, let each man or woman examine THEMSELVES.
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I state should because people fail only Jesus succeeded.
And people fail under the heavy burdens of will and must...which makes them focus on themselves rather than Christ Jesus who is the only correct focus.
 
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UnderGrace said:
I state should because people fail only Jesus succeeded.
And people fail under the heavy burdens of will and must...which makes them focus on themselves rather than Christ Jesus who is the only correct focus.
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People fail, but Jesus is there to pick them up again. That is what we mean by perserverance. Not us keeping ourselves, God in Christ keeping us.
 
Macabeus said:
I hit a wall by basically saying what you already said? AND DC AND GB9 AGREED TO?

eternally-gratefull said:
As I believe Scripture states,

Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.

In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)

Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature.


ALL (6) POSITIVE (6)
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Sometimes Mr. M it becomes style over substance especially, when people do not know you and you come in with all engines ablaze!!
 
Macabeus said:
1 John 3:6-7 is not talking about two natures in the believer, one sinning and the other righteous. It is talking about people who are born of God and people who are not born of God. Anyone who reads the whole chapter (and book) in it's context can see that, unless a person is reading their own ideas into the text.
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dcontroversal said:
Pal....you have no idea and exactly why MOST have you on ignore...your drivel and bather = deceit....PAUL was clear, so was JESUS.....the bible is replete of the conflict between the two natures, you are just too dense to grasp it.....
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Macabeus said:
People fail, but Jesus is there to pick them up again. That is what we mean by perserverance. Not us keeping ourselves, God in Christ keeping us.
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A new interpretation LOL .... Okay....perhaps Christ Jesus then preserves us then :)
 
UnderGrace said:
A new interpretation LOL .... Okay....perhaps Christ Jesus then preserves us then :)
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It's not a new doctrine. It's exactly what the doctrine teaches

God hath given this charge to Christ, that whomsoever he elected, Christ should preserve them safe, to bring them to heaven. Christopher Love

Did Christ finish his work for us? Then … he will also finish his work in us. John Flavel

An inheritance is not only kept for us, but we are kept for it. Richard Sibbes

God, by the exercise of his grace . . . infallibly prevents even the weakest saint from final apostasy. Loraine Boettner

This doctrine is of great comfort when rightly understood, It is not burdensome at all, but a comfort and an assurance
 
Macabeus said:
It's not a new doctrine. It's exactly what the doctrine teaches

God hath given this charge to Christ, that whomsoever he elected, Christ should preserve them safe, to bring them to heaven. Christopher Love

Did Christ finish his work for us? Then … he will also finish his work in us. John Flavel

An inheritance is not only kept for us, but we are kept for it. Richard Sibbes

God, by the exercise of his grace . . . infallibly prevents even the weakest saint from final apostasy. Loraine Boettner

This doctrine is of great comfort when rightly understood, It is not burdensome at all, but a comfort and an assurance
Click to expand...

Right, a saint cannot apostatize because of Jesus within them (the new nature) not because of their behavior (old nature).
 
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UnderGrace said:
Right, a saint cannot apostatize because of Jesus within them (the new nature) not because of their behavior (old nature).
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OF all that the Father gives to Jesus, He will lose none. John 6:37

Christ's house hold firm the hope and the confidence to the end. Hebrews 3:6

These two verses give the two sides of the doctrine

a. Christ keeps us.

b. Therefore, because Christ keeps us, we perservere, being His house.
 
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