Not By Works

[Macabeus]

what sprit? a sprit of truth and honesty?

you see, you think a believer has to instantly manifest fruit, followingpeterjensteps thinks we can be sinless while still in the flesh. there are outright lies.

of course, you 2 do not directly say these things, so when others call you out you can pull out plausible denial , and deflect.
I and many others see what you are doing. so, you have free will, do what ever, but both of you need to check your massive egos at the door, trash these wrong beliefs, and accept truth.
so, that's all I have to say, go ahead and attack this, feed your ego, satisfy your pride. I will continue to seek truth above man-made religious teachings .

Are you STILL obsessing about how long it takes to bear fruit?

You brought it up again, even though we weren't talking about fruit?

Just like you obsess over Follow's definition of sin, and kept bringing that up numerous times

 

[Macabeus]

He has watered it down so much that its not even "faith alone" anymore. Its "faith once then later you can become an unbeliever and still be saved". Unbelievable, once you get on that slippery slope thats where you end up.

I find it hard to believe he actually said you dont even need to stay in the faith to be saved, wow. So unbiblical. Every book of the Bible refutes that falsehood.

I am glad you found out his embarrasing games that he likes to play of "do you sin, well that means you live as you please and are a slave to sin" completely throwing away the verses you mentioned. But you have to realize bro, its all about intellectual gymnastics with these people. I suggest you ignore him, there is absolutely nothing that can come out of a discussion, he already admitted he is just doing it to pull your leg. Just trolling.

I agree that they are just trolling, but they are deceiving people.

 

[Macabeus]

what sprit? a sprit of truth and honesty?

you see, you think a believer has to instantly manifest fruit, followingpeterjensteps thinks we can be sinless while still in the flesh. there are outright lies.

of course, you 2 do not directly say these things, so when others call you out you can pull out plausible denial , and deflect.
I and many others see what you are doing. so, you have free will, do what ever, but both of you need to check your massive egos at the door, trash these wrong beliefs, and accept truth.
so, that's all I have to say, go ahead and attack this, feed your ego, satisfy your pride. I will continue to seek truth above man-made religious teachings .

I agreed with Rosemary not to talk about fruit anymore in this thread, and you brought it up AGAIN, like you did before. You are obsessed with how long it takes people to bear fruit.

 

[Macabeus]

what sprit? a sprit of truth and honesty?


of course, you 2 do not directly say these things,

No, people like you read things into what is being said that is not there. Just like Mangenta thought I was claiming to be sinless.

Don't address me until you decide to actually read the posts with understanding.

 

[Macabeus]

OK, so GB9's going to start obsessing again over fruit, so I better take off for a while.

I told Rosemary I wouldn't bring it up again, and we were doing just fine not bringing it up, and along comes spiritual fruit expert GB.

 

[Macabeus]

Me thinks you miss the point entirely. Ho hum. Hypocrites like to pretend they do not sin, that it is only others who sin. They push this delusion of their perfection onto others until they are forced against the wall and into a corner when they have to admit, OOPS, yes, they actually do still sin. Budman exposes such hypocrites, and turns their rhetoric against them. Has he per chance done this to you? You seem to have a personal vendetta against him.

HAHaHA, GB thinks I claim to be sinless too.

Makes me wonder what they are reading. Definitely not my posts.

OK, y'all have a nice day

(unless you guys decide to keep gumming me with your toothless pirhana gums, then I will have no choice but to answer again)

 

[dcontroversal]

All very true for those who do not, later in life, turn around 180 degrees and reject the Saviour, thereby causing their name to be removed from the Lambs Book of Life.

Romans 11:20-22 - But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

Revelation 22:19 - And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

In Rev it even tells us our name can be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life, which means it had to be written in before it can be REMOVED.

FALSE.....salvation is not losable......and your answer equates to what I said in my opening and closing statements.....

God does not yank salvation.....and your cited examples do no prove the loss of salvation....but rather rejecting Christ as savior....and you have a lot to learn as evidenced by the ignorance of using MOSES to try and peddle a salvation that can be lost......

MOSES represented the law and under the LAW sinned once = guilt and NO entrance into the land of promise....it took JOSHUA (SAVIOR) to lead the people in....so genius...since you use MOSES as an example of one that lost salvation....seeing how God killed him on the mount before he was allowed to enter....tell us ALL how he appeared on the MOUNT of TRANSFIGURATION with JESUS and ELIJAH if HE DIED LOST because he lost his salvation.....

NONE of your cited examples equates to the loss of salvation.....geesh.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Me thinks you miss the point entirely. Ho hum. Hypocrites like to pretend they do not sin, that it is only others who sin. They push this delusion of their perfection onto others until they are forced against the wall and into a corner when they have to admit, OOPS, yes, they actually do still sin. Budman exposes such hypocrites, and turns their rhetoric against them. Has he per chance done this to you? You seem to have a personal vendetta against him.

I am not even going to open up those I have on ignore.....it can only be one of two people......and seeing how one has been whining incessantly lately.....I can make a fairly good assumption of who you are addressing.......

 

[dcontroversal]

The thing is, those who teach error, may cause their brother and sister in Christ to stumble.
It is quite a responsibility.

Yeah no doubt.....like using Moses and Israel nationally to teach the loss of salvation?

 

[Macabeus]

All very true for those who do not, later in life, turn around 180 degrees and reject the Saviour, thereby causing their name to be removed from the Lambs Book of Life.

Romans 11:20-22 - But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

Revelation 22:19 - And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

In Rev it even tells us our name can be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life, which means it had to be written in before it can be REMOVED.

 

[Macabeus]

I am not even going to open up those I have on ignore.....it can only be one of two people......and seeing how one has been whining incessantly lately.....I can make a fairly good assumption of who you are addressing.......

Magenta think I claim to be sinless.

 

[dcontroversal]

For the ones lacking vision.....The following was written by PAUL unto TIMOTHY and PAUL uses the word WE and included himself........

King James Version
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Darby Bible Translation
if we are unfaithful, he abides faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
World English Bible
If we are faithless, he remains faithful. He can't deny himself."
Young's Literal Translation
if we are not stedfast, he remaineth stedfast; to deny himself he is not able.

εἰ ἀπιστοῦμεν, ἐκεῖνος πιστὸς μένει, ἀρνήσασθαι γὰρ ἑαυτὸν οὐ δύναται.

WHEN one believes by faith and is saved the RIGHTEOUSNESS, BLOOD and FAITH of CHRIST are applied unto the believer......EVEN if we fail, falter and become FAITHLESS after initial FAITH CHRIST remains true to SAID FAITH because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF.....NOR will he deny his PROMISES MADE, GIVEN and SUSTAINED.

ALL that teach a losable salvation based upon MEN and what they do or do not do are not being led by GOD....end of story.

In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith, AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of GOD and not of works lest any man should boast.

THAT not of YOURSELVES is DIRECTED at the FAITH that SAVES.......

The bible is clear....JESUS BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES the work of FAITH he begins in ALL

THE drivel peddled by the above absolutely calls JESUS a liar and contradicts the word of GOD.....YOU deceivers would have us ALL believe that JESUS begins a work of faith in a MAN and he is saved and then LOSES faith and LOSES salvation....that is straight from the pits of hell.....

I suggest you get right and honest with the words FINISH and COMPLETE and I will LOSE NOTHING......your dogma state that JESUS does NOT finish, complete and he DOES indeed lose something.....only Satan would breed and spread that kind of drivel.....

 

[FollowHisSteps]

For the ones lacking vision.....The following was written by PAUL unto TIMOTHY and PAUL uses the word WE and included himself........

King James Version
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Darby Bible Translation
if we are unfaithful, he abides faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
World English Bible
If we are faithless, he remains faithful. He can't deny himself."
Young's Literal Translation
if we are not stedfast, he remaineth stedfast; to deny himself he is not able.

εἰ ἀπιστοῦμεν, ἐκεῖνος πιστὸς μένει, ἀρνήσασθαι γὰρ ἑαυτὸν οὐ δύναται.

WHEN one believes by faith and is saved the RIGHTEOUSNESS, BLOOD and FAITH of CHRIST are applied unto the believer......EVEN if we fail, falter and become FAITHLESS after initial FAITH CHRIST remains true to SAID FAITH because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF.....NOR will he deny his PROMISES MADE, GIVEN and SUSTAINED.

ALL that teach a losable salvation based upon MEN and what they do or do not do are not being led by GOD....end of story.

In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith, AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of GOD and not of works lest any man should boast.

THAT not of YOURSELVES is DIRECTED at the FAITH that SAVES.......

The bible is clear....JESUS BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES the work of FAITH he begins in ALL

THE drivel peddled by the above absolutely calls JESUS a liar and contradicts the word of GOD.....YOU deceivers would have us ALL believe that JESUS begins a work of faith in a MAN and he is saved and then LOSES faith and LOSES salvation....that is straight from the pits of hell.....

I suggest you get right and honest with the words FINISH and COMPLETE and I will LOSE NOTHING......your dogma state that JESUS does NOT finish, complete and he DOES indeed lose something.....only Satan would breed and spread that kind of drivel.....

"JESUS begins a work of faith in a MAN and he is saved and then LOSES faith and LOSES salvation"

There is a simple parable Jesus told that covers this point very well.

28 For which of you, wanting to build a tower, doesn’t sit down first and compute the cost
to see if he has enough money to complete it?
29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish the tower, all who
see it will begin to make fun of him.
30 They will say, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish!’
31 Or what king, going out to confront another king in battle, will not sit down first and
determine whether he is able with ten thousand to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
32 If he cannot succeed, he will send a representative while the other is still a long way
off and ask for terms of peace.
Luke 14

The project is to become like Jesus. The rules of heaven are walking with the Lord.
To walk away is to deny the Kingdom. There is literally not another way, or something
different to return to. Jesus lays out this reality very clearly.

"only Satan would breed and spread that kind of drivel."

dcon should look in the mirror. Jesus says this whole process is costly, takes time and
is for a reason. Calling it satanic is fighting the enemies corner and undermining the
true cost of knowing Jesus, which is the highest we can ever pay, for the greatest reward
we can ever receive.

If you as a reader are serious to know and follow Jesus, then start reaching out to Him,
allow Jesus to cleanse your heart and purify you and lead you into works of love and
faith which will transform you into the child of the King.

 

[Magenta]

Magenta think I claim to be sinless.

That is a false accusation.

 

[dcontroversal]

That is a false accusation.

Join the crowd sis....he was over in another thread accusing @Budman of being an accuser of the brethern....

An accuser accusing the accuser......two Greek words = Hypocrite........

 

[dcontroversal]

"JESUS begins a work of faith in a MAN and he is saved and then LOSES faith and LOSES salvation"

There is a simple parable Jesus told that covers this point very well.

28 For which of you, wanting to build a tower, doesn’t sit down first and compute the cost
to see if he has enough money to complete it?
29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish the tower, all who
see it will begin to make fun of him.
30 They will say, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish!’
31 Or what king, going out to confront another king in battle, will not sit down first and
determine whether he is able with ten thousand to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
32 If he cannot succeed, he will send a representative while the other is still a long way
off and ask for terms of peace.
Luke 14

The project is to become like Jesus. The rules of heaven are walking with the Lord.
To walk away is to deny the Kingdom. There is literally not another way, or something
different to return to. Jesus lays out this reality very clearly.

"only Satan would breed and spread that kind of drivel."

dcon should look in the mirror. Jesus says this whole process is costly, takes time and
is for a reason. Calling it satanic is fighting the enemies corner and undermining the
true cost of knowing Jesus, which is the highest we can ever pay, for the greatest reward
we can ever receive.

If you as a reader are serious to know and follow Jesus, then start reaching out to Him,
allow Jesus to cleanse your heart and purify you and lead you into works of love and
faith which will transform you into the child of the King.

False PETER.......and you should be true to the rules of this site after being banned twice....do the honorable thing and show some integrity....leave!

 

[corazondeldei]

For the ones lacking vision.....The following was written by PAUL unto TIMOTHY and PAUL uses the word WE and included himself........

King James Version
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Darby Bible Translation
if we are unfaithful, he abides faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
World English Bible
If we are faithless, he remains faithful. He can't deny himself."
Young's Literal Translation
if we are not stedfast, he remaineth stedfast; to deny himself he is not able.

εἰ ἀπιστοῦμεν, ἐκεῖνος πιστὸς μένει, ἀρνήσασθαι γὰρ ἑαυτὸν οὐ δύναται.

WHEN one believes by faith and is saved the RIGHTEOUSNESS, BLOOD and FAITH of CHRIST are applied unto the believer......EVEN if we fail, falter and become FAITHLESS after initial FAITH CHRIST remains true to SAID FAITH because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF.....NOR will he deny his PROMISES MADE, GIVEN and SUSTAINED.

ALL that teach a losable salvation based upon MEN and what they do or do not do are not being led by GOD....end of story.

In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith, AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of GOD and not of works lest any man should boast.

THAT not of YOURSELVES is DIRECTED at the FAITH that SAVES.......

The bible is clear....JESUS BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES the work of FAITH he begins in ALL

THE drivel peddled by the above absolutely calls JESUS a liar and contradicts the word of GOD.....YOU deceivers would have us ALL believe that JESUS begins a work of faith in a MAN and he is saved and then LOSES faith and LOSES salvation....that is straight from the pits of hell.....

I suggest you get right and honest with the words FINISH and COMPLETE and I will LOSE NOTHING......your dogma state that JESUS does NOT finish, complete and he DOES indeed lose something.....only Satan would breed and spread that kind of drivel.....

You are claiming to be saved and always saved which clearly means that you are UNTOUCHABLE or IMMOVABLE, right? How about the 7 churches mentioned in Revelations, where they saved and always saved like you? Please reply.

Thanks and God bless.

NIV1984 Revelation 2:1,5,7
To the Church in Ephesus “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are claiming to be saved and always saved which clearly means that you are UNTOUCHABLE or IMMOVABLE, right? How about the 7 churches mentioned in Revelations, where they saved and always saved like you? Please reply.

Thanks and God bless.

NIV1984 Revelation 2:1,5,7
To the Church in Ephesus “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Removing the authority of a New Testament church has NOTHING to do with one losing salvation...geesh.....no wonder you believe that drivel.....and it is REVELATION.....not REVELATIONS....

 

[PS]

FALSE.....salvation is not losable......and your answer equates to what I said in my opening and closing statements.....

God does not yank salvation.....and your cited examples do no prove the loss of salvation....but rather rejecting Christ as savior....and you have a lot to learn as evidenced by the ignorance of using MOSES to try and peddle a salvation that can be lost......

MOSES represented the law and under the LAW sinned once = guilt and NO entrance into the land of promise....it took JOSHUA (SAVIOR) to lead the people in....so genius...since you use MOSES as an example of one that lost salvation....seeing how God killed him on the mount before he was allowed to enter....tell us ALL how he appeared on the MOUNT of TRANSFIGURATION with JESUS and ELIJAH if HE DIED LOST because he lost his salvation.....

NONE of your cited examples equates to the loss of salvation.....geesh.......

We have freewill and can turn aside. God knows his own.

 

[corazondeldei]

Removing the authority of a New Testament church has NOTHING to do with one losing salvation...geesh.....no wonder you believe that drivel.....and it is REVELATION.....not REVELATIONS....

Thank you for a very respectful and interesting reply. I have to ask again were they saved and always saved like you?