Not By Works

[Macabeus]

verb
/vərb/
noun
a word used to describe an action, state, or occurrence, and forming the main part of the predicate of a sentence, such as hear, become, happen.

teleioó: to bring to an end, to complete, perfect
Original Word: τελειόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: teleioó
Phonetic Spelling: (tel-i-o'-o)
Definition: to bring to an end, to complete, perfect
Usage: (a) as a course, a race, or the like: I complete, finish (b) as of time or prediction: I accomplish, (c) I make perfect; pass: I am perfected.

Wow, I'm thouroughly impressed. You can use a lexicon to try to prop up a house of cards non argument.

You can repeat your goal post shifting non sequitur argument until Jesus comes back, it will not change the fact that this has nothing to do with "it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear anything"

Goalpost shift from "fruit bearing" to "fruit perfection"

 

[Macabeus]

Yes he believed, that is right causes some problems with the doctrine of the perfect believer doesn't it?

"may your money perish with you"

"you have no part or lot in this"

"your heart is not right with God."

"Pray that perhaps the wickedness of your heart may be forgiven"

All things Peter said to Simon Magus.

 

[dcontroversal]

So you see what was shared. Great and Praise GOD!

This brings us to Romans 3:23. For all have sinned, and come short (inferior) of the glory of God;

Sin here is past tense, but come short of the glory of GOD is present.

Do a study from the Greek on both words.....the coming short of the glory of God is aimed at the SIN........it is written in the following verb tense....PRESENT INDICATIVE MIDDLE OR PASSIVE 3rd PERSON

What does this mean?

GREEK TENSE not only indicates TIME of action, but also the KIND of ACTION

THE TENSE is PRESENT INDICATIVE = AND SHOWS a continual ACTION "ING" form of the verb

PASSIVE VOICE: The subject receives the consequences of the action.
MIDDLE VOICE: The subject is part or all of the action. In other words, the subject is both the cause and the focus, the agent and experiencer, of a verbal action

I.E. THE FLESH, dead in SIN, is CONTINUALLY falling short of the glory of GOD because of the SIN and or SIN NATURE.....................

 

[Macabeus]

"may your money perish with you"

"you have no part or lot in this"

"your heart is not right with God."

"Pray that perhaps the wickedness of your heart may be forgiven"

All things Peter said to Simon Magus.

OOPs, sorry. Peter did not say "may your money perish with you". It was not subjunctive, it was optative, which expresses a desire or a wish. But he did say that Simon's heart was not right with God, and exhorted him to repent and seek forgiveness. So much for "only have to repent once" crowd.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Nice try.......same modus operandi from before......oh make no mistake....we know you........and what you peddle does not meet the criteria for biblical standards..........especially saying things like the following.....WHY NOT PULL UP A DIRECT QUOTE AND PROVE SOME HAVE SAID THE FOLLOWING

but there are some who believe we should stay as we are compromised and defeated and this is what Jesus expected.

Many do hold they are saved and can stay as they are before God. Stating this is reflecting a easy believism
position

Says the guy who sins every single day just like everyone else.

I'll never understand the "works for salvation" crowd.
They're sinners, demanding that other sinners, stop sinning.

There is not one ounce of genuine hope in a works/law keeping based salvation because of the following truths...
a. Any good works MUST be according to the word of GOD and Jesus said NONE are GOOD but GOD
b. Any one that believes in a law keeping salvation must have kept every law, 24/7/365 their whole life...none except JESUS has done this or will do this.
c. Paul was clear....FAITH or WORKS....not both, one or the other...
d. MANY believe they know the LORD and believe their right to enter the kingdom is based upon the good works they have done. JESUS states clearly that he never knew them which goes to the root of the gospel they placed their trust in...and it seems evident that faith plus works is what they believed.
e. Faith plus works to gain, keep, finish, top off, embellish and or complete salvation is a false gospel according to Galatians

The quotes above summarise we are just sinners, slaves to sin, defeated and can be nothing else.
If just faith is enough to be ok in Christ, then staying as we are is ok.

 

[dcontroversal]

I never denied or rejected this. I denied that it had anything to do with what you originally said. You did not say "it takes a period of growth and maturity for one's fruit to be perfected", you said "it takes years of growth and maturity for one to bear anything (i.e Fruit)"

This kind of blatant dishonesty on your part is why I keep pressing the issue. If you would fairly REPRESENT your own words, I would drop the subject. But you can't and you won't.

You need to get over yourself pal....you are the one being dishonest and going to seed on something that you are ignoring.....FRUIT does NOT bear instantly...juts like LOVE it must be matured and BROUGHT to completion....that IS WHAT you cannot get...NOW.....many have seen your dishonesty....so....UNLESS you wish to get right and start being HONEST....keep posting.....and see where it leads!!!!!

My position has been consistent.....yours on the other hand has vacillated numerous times......for example...you keep saying you are leaving and keep coming back to cause issues.......!!

 

[Macabeus]

You need to get over yourself pal....you are the one being dishonest and going to seed on something that you are ignoring.....FRUIT does NOT bear instantly...juts like LOVE it must be matured and BROUGHT to completion....that IS WHAT you cannot get...NOW.....many have seen your dishonesty....so....UNLESS you wish to get right and start being HONEST....keep posting.....and see where it leads!!!!!

My position has been consistent.....yours on the other hand has vacillated numerous times......for example...you keep saying you are leaving and keep coming back to cause issues.......!!

No one said "fruit bears instantly". That is a strawman. I never said that. I merely said it does not take a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit. Because one can bear fruit in many ways that do not require any level of maturity.

A person that just got saved two minutes ago can tell his friend about what Jesus did for Him, and if the Holy Spirit chooses, he can use that to draw a sinner to Christ.

A person who gets saved today can put an offering into the missionary offerering tommorow, and God can use that gift to save souls, and that is fruit on his or her account.

A person that gets saved five minutes from now can praise and glorify God, which is the fruit of their mouth.

The Samaritan woman didn't need a period of growth and maturity to bring a whole village to Jesus.

Andrew did not need a period of growth and maturity to bring Peter to Jesus.

Phillip did not need a period of growth and maturity to bring Nathaniel to Jesus

etcetera

 

[dcontroversal]

The quotes above summarise we are just sinners, slaves to sin, defeated and can be nothing else.
If just faith is enough to be ok in Christ, then staying as we are is ok.

Nice try PETER....you did not prove anything...and constantly breaking the site rules = walking in sin...something about LOG in the eye is coming to mind

 

[Macabeus]

My position has been consistent.....yours on the other hand has vacillated numerous times......for example...you keep saying you are leaving and keep coming back to cause issues.......!!

I said if no one mentions me again, I will not come back. You guys kept bringing me up, so I kept coming back.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

No one said "fruit bears instantly". That is a strawman. I never said that. I merely said it does not take a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit. Because one can bear fruit in many ways that do not require any level of maturity.

A person that just got saved two minutes ago can tell his friend about what Jesus did for Him, and if the Holy Spirit chooses, he can use that to draw a sinner to Christ.

A person who gets saved today can put an offering into the missionary offerering tommorow, and God can use that gift to save souls, and that is fruit on his or her account.

A person that gets saved five minutes from now can praise and glorify God, which is the fruit of their mouth.

The Samaritan woman didn't need a period of growth and maturity to bring a whole village to Jesus.

Andrew did not need a period of growth and maturity to bring Peter to Jesus.

Phillip did not need a period of growth and maturity to bring Nathaniel to Jesus

etcetera

I am sorry, this very morning I have said, yes fruit if born instantly.
You may not have said it, but falling for the "no one says" line is not a good idea.

 

[Macabeus]

I am sorry, this very morning I have said, yes fruit if born instantly.
You may not have said it, but falling for the "no one says" line is not a good idea.

OK. . Duly noted.

Sometimes new Christians are more fruitful then their more mature counterparts. I have seen this many times.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Nice try PETER....you did not prove anything...and constantly breaking the site rules = walking in sin...something about LOG in the eye is coming to mind

dcon, so boring. And this is why I say responding to "prove this" is pointless if the responder then
responds you did not prove anything. I was bored and thought I would illustrate my points with
examples. And this is really the point, walking in Jesus is about believing He can change us, and
if one accepts sin like a slavery that is impossible to break, there is no reason to even ask the question
of how or why?

If all mountaineers said climbing Everest is impossible, none would have tried.
The cross asks us to answer the question of how and why we can walk like Jesus.

 

[dcontroversal]

No one said "fruit bears instantly". That is a strawman. I never said that. I merely said it does not take a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit. Because one can bear fruit in many ways that do not require any level of maturity.

A person that just got saved two minutes ago can tell his friend about what Jesus did for Him, and if the Holy Spirit chooses, he can use that to draw a sinner to Christ.

A person who gets saved today can put an offering into the missionary offerering tommorow, and God can use that gift to save souls, and that is fruit on his or her account.

A person that gets saved five minutes from now can praise and glorify God, which is the fruit of their mouth.

The Samaritan woman didn't need a period of growth and maturity to bring a whole village to Jesus.

Andrew did not need a period of growth and maturity to bring Peter to Jesus.

Phillip did not need a period of growth and maturity to bring Nathaniel to Jesus

etcetera

AND I say you have ignored JESUS, PAUL, the bible which constantly COMPARES us to WHEAT, TREES, VINES and the LOST to TARES......and NONE of your cited examples = insta fruit..........

SO which is it......now you are waffling........if it is NOT insta fruit then what IS IT.......either INSTA fruit or TIME.......Does it say that ANDREW and PHILLIP we saved that micro SECOND....or did JOHN the BAPTIST PREPARE the MATERIAL that JESUS called out...they were already SAVED and IMMERSED.......

AND...show me a verse that states putting an offering in IS FRUIT, or Praising GOD is FRUIT and the LAST time I checked the Samaritan people told the woman we believe because we have heard HIM SPEAK.....

You can get over it pal....I have been consistent with what I have said..........I have used the terms SOME, MANY, not ALL etc. all through this thread when discussing fruit and works.........so.......

Like I have said.....IF you cannot be honest and continue to cause problems and derail this thread into a circus.....do not address me and you are causing division <---NOT of GOD pal!!

I am done addressing your blather!

 

[Macabeus]

dcon, so boring. And this is why I say responding to "prove this" is pointless if the responder then
responds you did not prove anything. I was bored and thought I would illustrate my points with
examples. And this is really the point, walking in Jesus is about believing He can change us, and
if one accepts sin like a slavery that is impossible to break, there is no reason to even ask the question
of how or why?

If all mountaineers said climbing Everest is impossible, none would have tried.
The cross asks us to answer the question of how and why we can walk like Jesus.

You cannot prove anything to him. He is past learning.

 

[dcontroversal]

AND really, if one wants to be fully HONEST.....NO ONE produces fruit......we are but the branches that BEARS the fruit that is PRODUCED by the ROOT <----JESUS is the one bearing fruit through us as a living sacrifice............

 

[Macabeus]

AND...show me a verse that states putting an offering in IS FRUIT, or Praising GOD is FRUIT and the LAST tie I checked the Samaritan people told the woman we believe because we have heard HIM SPEAK.....

When you answer, you sound like someone you doesn't spend a lot of time in the word.

Offering- Phil. 4:16- For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. 4:17- Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

Praise- Hebrews 13:15- By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Samaritan woman- And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

 

[Macabeus]

AND really, if one wants to be fully HONEST.....NO ONE produces fruit.

Read John 15 much? Jesus said we bear fruit

......we are but the branches that BEARS the fruit that is PRODUCED by the ROOT <----JESUS is the one bearing fruit through us as a living sacrifice...........

this part is correct.

 

[UnderGrace]

You cannot prove anything to him. He is past learning.

 

[gb9]

You cannot prove anything to him. He is past learning.

follwingpeterjensteps does not even recognize the actual definition of sin. he is one who needs teaching, he needs not to be taken seriously .

 

[dcontroversal]

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HAHAHAHAHHA I have 7 cats and they are all looking at me through the window wanting to be fed.....and three are about to pop and drop a few more HAHAHHAHAHAH