Not By Works

[Macabeus]

Curious if your name came up in the past week, or if you decided it was time again to dredge up this issue you like to bash DC with.

I honestly don't know which.

Budman brought me back. Untli then, I was staying out. Do you want post number?

 

[Macabeus]

But, when you stated fruits are the evidence of salvation, you are indeed inspecting.

I sure wish you didn't have to go. I'm having such fun!

that is not inspecting fruit any more than saying "all apples with worms are rotten" is fruit inspection,

 

[gb9]

That is all you have. That is a LAUGHABLE example of evidence for your claim. Look at the quote.

I think whether or not a new Christian is able to bear fruit is a very important issue.

Is able is not the same as does. So how is that trying to assert how long it takes to bear fruit? Ability does not necessarily mean that what one is able to do will be performed. This is the same error you have been making from the beginning. Confusing necessity with contingency.

I make no error, I see exactly what you said in that post- time and fruit. it's your whole platform.

you can play word games, use plausible denial tactics all you want, anyone can read back over your posts, and see a clear pattern.

 

[Macabeus]

Yeah, I kinda figured you wouldn't have the integrity to apologize.

And as far as the fruit inspecting stuff - sure. I do relish calling out hypocrites who love to judge people for sinning when they themselves sin every single day. At least I admit I sin every day - by either thought, word, or deed. Which makes me even more dependent of Jesus. And I do love calling out people who insist that if one does not work, they will lose their salvation - when they themselves can't give any specifics as to how much work or how often it's required. Those who live for nothing less than to put the heavy yoke of the Law back on believers. Hypocrites, Judaizers, and Pharisees all.

Right here, Bud brought me back into the conversation, PenED. So I was true to what I said.

 

[Macabeus]

I make no error, I see exactly what you said in that post- time and fruit. it's your whole platform.

you can play word games, use plausible denial tactics all you want, anyone can read back over your posts, and see a clear pattern.

You said I wanted to know how long it takes to bear fruit? I never asked that question, nor did I affirm anything along those lines.

When a believer is able to bear fruit and when he or she actually begins bearing fruit are two entirely different things. One is an actuality and the other is a possibility.

Or did you not know that?

Your bad argumentation is a textbook example of the type of argumentation your club uses. Misrepresent someone is all you are able to do.

You have done nothing that I have seen in this thread except misrepresent people.

 

[Macabeus]

a. you said I wanted to know how long it takes to bear fruit.

b. I made the statement in reference to whether a new believer IS ABLE to bear fruit.

c. You used that statement as proof for you original, false claim.

ignoring the fact that WHEN " a believer is able to bear fruit" and "when he or she actually begins bearing fruit" are two entirely different things

 

[PennEd]

Budman brought me back. Untli then, I was staying out. Do you want post number?

He used your name?

 

[Macabeus]

He used your name?

I am the one they like to falsely call the "fruit inspector"

Ir is a false accusation. Noone gets called on it. But when DC says "Argueless accused me (DC) of lyinng to the Holy Spirit". No one challenges it. The fact that I read that, was reason enough to come back, besides the fact that "fruit inspection" was brought up again, which is an indirect reference to me.

 

[Melach]

dear macabeus and budman; brethren. you have been going back and forth. by this time brethren i believe it wise to agree to disagree and let it be.

 

[Macabeus]

dear macabeus and budman; brethren. you have been going back and forth. by this time brethren i believe it wise to agree to disagree and let it be.

I don't mind agreeing to disagree. I do mind being accused of things I did not do.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me. I don't mind people challenging me. I do mind people telling outright LIES.

Look at GB9's accusation that I have refuted...just this morning

Look at DC's false accusation of Argueless...show me one post where Argueless accused DC of lying to the Holy Spirit. The post he quoted as doing so did no such thing

SO it's not a matter of disagreement. It is a matter of flagrant lying.

 

[Macabeus]

Yeah, I kinda figured you wouldn't have the integrity to apologize.

And as far as the fruit inspecting stuff - sure. I do relish calling out hypocrites who love to judge people for sinning when they themselves sin every single day. At least I admit I sin every day - by either thought, word, or deed. Which makes me even more dependent of Jesus. And I do love calling out people who insist that if one does not work, they will lose their salvation - when they themselves can't give any specifics as to how much work or how often it's required. Those who live for nothing less than to put the heavy yoke of the Law back on believers. Hypocrites, Judaizers, and Pharisees all.

Who was Budman addressing here, PenED.

and have you looked into his false accusation that I am a fruit inspector, and the rationale he gives behind it. Just read a couple of pages of posts after the one quoted above, and you will see the biggest mishmush of misrepresentation only surpassed by GB9"s

 

[Macabeus]

He used your name?

Yeah, I kinda figured you wouldn't have the integrity to apologize.

And as far as the fruit inspecting stuff - sure. I do relish calling out hypocrites who love to judge people for sinning when they themselves sin every single day. At least I admit I sin every day - by either thought, word, or deed. Which makes me even more dependent of Jesus. And I do love calling out people who insist that if one does not work, they will lose their salvation - when they themselves can't give any specifics as to how much work or how often it's required. Those who live for nothing less than to put the heavy yoke of the Law back on believers. Hypocrites, Judaizers, and Pharisees all.

Who was Budman addressing here, PenED.

and have you looked into BUDMAN's false accusation that I am a fruit inspector? and the rationale he gives behind it?

Just read a couple of pages of posts after the one quoted above, and you will see the biggest mishmush of misrepresentation only surpassed by GB9"s

 

[Macabeus]

He used your name?

so are you finished interogating me about why I came back?

 

[Jimbone]

all right, just keep pretending that you are not a judgmental fruit checker, but do not falsely accuse me of providing no evidence of your own words.

Hey just as an outside observer, if he is an "judgmental fruit checker", would that make you a "judgmental fruit checker-checker"?
To be honest you did not show a post where he claimed any amount of time it takes to bare fruit, but the fact is what he is saying is right, those in Christ in truth will bare fruit, and He does purge them and they then bare more. This is the WHOLE reason He saves us, to build His kingdom. I think this debate is much less about "misunderstanding", and more "won't understanding" on both sides. Tribalism, labels, and straw men beside each of you that the other speaks past you to. I get into this same thing all the time, and I truly think it's such a waste of time personally. Yet I say this as one who finds myself "wasting time" this way far too often. I just want to proclaim the power of Jesus to change our hearts, bring our spirit to life, and reconcile it with His Spirit making us NEW, as we were created to be. Whole. By His grace through faith in Jesus who took the wrath of God so we might know this forgiveness, praise His mighty name. I just pray here and now,

Father please let your Spirit guide each of us to our purpose, to glorify You. We want to glorify the name of Jesus above all names, for He is the foundation and the very Truth and Creator of all reality, I thank you God for opening our eyes to the things we were blind to in the flesh, and I thank you for Your Spirit guiding us to all truth, growing us our weaknesses, and I trust you God to grow all Your children in the way You chose and just how they need to be grown. I ask you give me the right words to say, attitude and tone to say them in, and that it is all used to glorify Jesus our Lord. I thank you God for EVERYTHING, in Jesus glorious name I pray. Amen.

I truly hope you all have a great day.

 

[Macabeus]

This was directed to me. That's why you didn't say "we".

As exampled by this next post:



And here is where you basically accuse me of not loving God for asking if one can sin so much as to lose salvation.



And the following is the crux of my arguement:



This applies to people in general as well as individuals as evidenced by you saying:



And I even asked you if what you posted was directed at individuals:



And you said:



Which does indeed make you a fruit inspector.

And then you went on to state I'm a liar for saying you are claiming if we don't produce fruit, whether generally or individually, our faith is not genuine.

Here is Budman's funny rationale as to why I am a fruit inspector.

If you say a general principle that both apples to everyone and to individuals, you are a fruit inspector.

 

[Macabeus]

Hey just as an outside observer, if he is an "judgmental fruit checker", would that make you a "judgmental fruit checker-checker"?

Hope you don't mind the partial quote, but this part was gold

 

[gb9]

I don't mind agreeing to disagree. I do mind being accused of things I did not do.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me. I don't mind people challenging me. I do mind people telling outright LIES.

Look at GB9's accusation that I have refuted...just this morning

Look at DC's false accusation of Argueless...show me one post where Argueless accused DC of lying to the Holy Spirit. The post he quoted as doing so did no such thing

SO it's not a matter of disagreement. It is a matter of flagrant lying.

you have refuted nothing- you said " new Christian- able to bear fruit'

so, let's think- new Christian - bearing fruit. you used the word " able ". so, by doing this, you very carefully say that a new believer is supposed to be bearing fruit.

or, in other words, if the answer is " yes, a new believer is able to bear fruit" your next comment would be, " well, if they are able , then why are they not?".

so, use the plausible denial tactic all you want, me and some others see right through it.

 

[Macabeus]

you have refuted nothing- you said " new Christian- able to bear fruit'

so, let's think- new Christian - bearing fruit. you used the word " able ". so, by doing this, you very carefully say that a new believer is supposed to be bearing fruit.

or, in other words, if the answer is " yes, a new believer is able to bear fruit" your next comment would be, " well, if they are able , then why are they not?".

so, use the plausible denial tactic all you want, me and some others see right through it.

Is a mature believer supposed to be bearing fruit?

If you say no, you are denying scripture

If you say yes, you are a fruit inspector

 

[Macabeus]

you have refuted nothing- you said " new Christian- able to bear fruit'

so, let's think- new Christian - bearing fruit. you used the word " able ". so, by doing this, you very carefully say that a new believer is supposed to be bearing fruit.

or, in other words, if the answer is " yes, a new believer is able to bear fruit" your next comment would be, " well, if they are able , then why are they not?".

so, use the plausible denial tactic all you want, me and some others see right through it.

So John was a fruit inspector

1 JOHN 2:6- He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Do you know what "ought' means GB? It is STRONGER than "supposed to".

 

[Macabeus]

You guys, (Budman, DC, EG, GB9, etc) keep coming at me with your opinions and philosophy, and I keep answering with scripture. Because you have NO scriptural basis for your refutations.

So the answers y'ALL have given have increasingly devolved into , so if you don't mention or quote or refer to me again, I will bid you adieu. It's been interesting at least.