Not By Works

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Melach said:
dear friend. read 1 john 5:9-12. if we say eternal life can be lost it makes God a liar. that is a serious offense.
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This is an interpretation of what it means to be saved.
I would suggest many think they know God but are just thought believers and have not
become cleansed heart and righteous action believers, or even believing God can achieve
this in them.

We are saved by faith, which cleanses and purifies our heart which is shown in our behaviour.
If our hearts are not purified then our faith has failed and our behaviour will be as sinful as before.
 
azamzimtoti said:
I think dragging the issue of an unrepented sin over to Gnosticism is Overgandy, it's merely speculation that John was speaking towards Gnosticism.
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It was a related school of thought there were many variations.....although the name escapes me......

I have this from my notes but I do not have the reference...

From the various references within certain books of the Apostle John (i.e., 1 John and the Revelation) and the writings of the early church historians (e.g., Polycarp; Ignatius), it becomes clear that a proper interpretation of this epistle is possible only when one understands the Gnostic heresy that existed and opposed the early church.

I would have to go back and actually read more of thread to see what was stated about unrepentant sin:eek:
 
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azamzimtoti said:
Whut? I'm not following this hair splitting.

(1 Pet 1:9 because you are attaining the goal of your faith - the salvation of your souls.)
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No splitting hairs.... the word saved in scripture must be understood in context.

In Mediterranean languages we used "saved" to be many things, my dad once said he was saved because he married my mom he was not referencing spiritual salvation .... context, context, context.

Soul, spirit, flesh are not the same.
 
FollowHisSteps said:
The question you asked me was answered well by another member.
We are saved by faith, which cleanses and purifies our heart which is shown in our behaviour.

Maybe that answers your question. These are new connections for me to make, and ways of
expressing existing concepts, so I am discovering coherent ways of putting the concepts together.
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This seems somewhat at odds with your previous 3 suggestions and looks like a "Get out of Jail Free" post.
 
Melach said:
dear friend. read 1 john 5:9-12. if we say eternal life can be lost it makes God a liar. that is a serious offense.
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The verses say he that has the Son has (eternal) life. The issue is when one goes back into sin, that one is repudiating Christ and the cross and eternal life is thrown away. Sinning and eternal life are two opposite things. We are to "let" Christ be within. When we don't, there is no more eternal life, which, by the way, becomes actual at the second coming.
 
BibletruthSOP said:
The verses say he that has the Son has (eternal) life. The issue is when one goes back into sin, that one is repudiating Christ and the cross and eternal life is thrown away. Sinning and eternal life are two opposite things. We are to "let" Christ be within. When we don't, there is no more eternal life, which, by the way, becomes actual at the second coming.
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it wasnt eternal then. God did not lie. join me on the sun side
 
For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,
but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Hebrews 4:15

Jesus had the same situations we went through yet survived without fault.
Original sin is not innate within our flesh.
Original sin is not innate within our spirits, mind or emotions.

What we have left is our communion with God. We are born separate from God,
and so we will always sin and always withdraw and defend ourselves because we
are literally alone and do not know the living God one to one.

John the Baptist did and so was born into ministry and the Kingdom of Heaven.
It is why though he was the greatest of prophets he is always less than any of
the elect. This one issue of communion is everything.

It is also why those without a cleansed heart do not have the Holy Spirit and
do not know repentance and reconciliation, and live in unbelief that God can
change them, and believe God is the God of sinners bound and lost to sin.

So they will interpret 1 John 1:8 to mean sin is always present in them, even when
cleansed, rather than John saying we cannot say we are sinless, only God can do
that, not that being cleansed and obeying Christ is impossible, which he states
catagorically that is our calling and ministry in Christ.
 
UnderGrace said:
No splitting hairs.... the word saved in scripture must be understood in context.

In Mediterranean languages we used "saved" to be many things, my dad once said he was saved because he married my mom he was not referencing spiritual salvation .... context, context, context.

Soul, spirit, flesh are not the same.
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is that what you mean by soul life salvation?

dear friend, can you show me the difference between soul life salvation and spiritual eternal salvation? i have never heard of soul life salvation.

if i say: i was saved from the storm at sea. is that soul life salvation?
 
dcontroversal said:
Are you dense or just willfully ignorant?

Why does God chasten children?
Why did PAUL write to the Corinthian ASSEMBLY to correct 15 ERRORS?
Why does PAUL say he is the number one chief sinner among men in the present tense?

You have NO concept that BELIEVERS STILL SIN because we are STILL BOUND in a fallen BODY of flesh....

Get over it dude....you are false, your view is false and you are peddling that which is NOT biblical.......end of story
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I understand that a believer can sin, but your statement that believers sin (like standard operating procedure) and it has zero consequences regarding salvation is 100% unbiblical. Just think a little. Satan sinned. Satan wants everyone to sin. Satan wants no one to abhor sin (the mind of Christ) or to believe Christ within/Holy Spirit can keep one from sinning. Satan wants all to sin and Christ can actually do nothing to stop sinning so we have this little pretend system called OSAS and Satan sits back and smiles.
 
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I don't think anybody here considers being a Christian equates with sin and standing operating procedure, this is to me the usual SOP for speaking out against OSAS.
 
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BibletruthSOP said:
And whose SUCCESS and whose FAILURE is sanctification subject to? At conversion I thought the flesh is crucified with Christ. We CAN? walk in a manner that pleases god? I guess I just read Romans 8:1 & 2, Romans 12: 1 & 2, Ephesians 4:13, 1 John 4:17, and dozens and dozens of verses too literally, forgetting that overcoming is a pretend thing like OSAS.
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You have already proven that you have no understanding.......nothing you say has value until you can post truth with understanding.....ongoing sanctification is SUBJECT to successes and or failures based upon the level of transformation that takes place in the mind (Romans 12:1-2)

Do me a favor....do not address me again.....your errors, lack of understanding and false blather is old now and it is obvious that you are not open to the truth on any level.......a better IDEA...go start your own self saving, I don't sin, I am perfect and always walk right Phariseeical thread............
 
Rosemaryx said:
I think so also...Emotions lie to us...
If my emotions are true to Gods word , then I know my emotions are in the right place , after all , God gave us tears to cry , and tears to rejoice...

I remember before I was saved , I would watch T,V and cry over the scenes in a soap opera , and yet things going on around me in the world did not move me...

I know why I cry over my son , God collects them tears , if I cried over reality T,V he would not lol...

God gave us emotions for His sake , to laugh , cry and rejoice in Him...All the glory to God I say ...xox...
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I thought I would comment on this.
Emotions are merely flags in our experience. They are not lying or telling the truth.
If you get hit by a ball it hurts. The hurt just tells you it hurts and damage has been done.
It is up to ourselves to work out whether this is a problem, what the context is and what we
want to do in response.

So emotions are never taking the lead, they are just telling us how we are reacting to things.
You need to then work out why and react appropriately. Crying about a film is fine, but because
of a real tragedy in ones own life is quite different.

Freedom comes when we know the triggers and know how in Christ to respond appropriately.
What our bodies and our past does to us, emotionally, is something that can change and become
in Christ something different, like a child learning another way of being. That is the freedom in
Christ and the Spirit He is leading us into. God bless you
 
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BibletruthSOP said:
I understand that a believer can sin, but your statement that believers sin (like standard operating procedure) and it has zero consequences regarding salvation is 100% unbiblical. Just think a little. Satan sinned. Satan wants everyone to sin. Satan wants no one to abhor sin (the mind of Christ) or to believe Christ within/Holy Spirit can keep one from sinning. Satan wants all to sin and Christ can actually do nothing to stop sinning so we have this little pretend system called OSAS and Satan sits back and smiles.
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Wrong again....it has nothing to do with salvation....that is your fatal error and proves that you do not know the correct message of salvation.....and the bolded is idiotic and reeks of a lack of understanding
 
Melach said:
is that what you mean by soul life salvation?

dear friend, can you show me the difference between soul life salvation and spiritual eternal salvation? i have never heard of soul life salvation.

if i say: i was saved from the storm at sea. is that soul life salvation?
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Absolutely will differentiate.....gathering my thoughts......:)
 
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dcontroversal said:
Look.....salvation is a one off event with eternal consequences......after one has been born from above by INCORRUPTIBLE seed we are eternally secure in Christ.....HOWEVER we are also dealt with as children and if we walk contrary will be whipped (chastened) which can include any of the following....loss of rewards, works of wood, hay and stubble burnt to a crisp yet still saved, ruined witness, being unusable by God, and even the loss of physical life......yet our birth is from above, held by Christ, sustained by Christ and he will lose nothing and will not forsake us or leave us for his name sake......

As far as the false gospel....PAUL as SAUL peddle that which was false and he was enlightened and then used of GOD........so........trust JESUS and set your face like flint and now make a stand on the correct message....
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So now the wages of sin is loss of reward, or is ruined witness, or, or, or, anything but what the bible says it is. Walking contrary is not an inadvertent sin. Walking contrary is unrepentant sinning. The wages of sin is death. With this type of salvation IN SINNING nonsense being spread , no wonder Jesus said "will I find faith when I return".
 
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