Not By Works

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Macabeus said:
Yes, I realize we have been declared perfect. If I didn't know this, I would have given up a long time ago.

And your question is like asking "if a dog started meowing, would that make it a cat". We act according to our nature. If we are still habitually and constantly and continuouslywalking according to our old nature with no thought of repentance, we need to take inventory, examine ourselves if we are in the faith

Let the wise, understand
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That's not what I asked.

I asked; can one sin so much as to lose their salvation?

Yes or no?
 
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Budman said:
Hardly. I have a very "anti-hypocrite" attitude.
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IF we claim to be without sin, you can call us hypocrites. But I don't think anyone has said that.

What we are saying is that we should not use the fact that no one is without sin to say that's it's inevitable that we will live under sin's dominion. We are to rise up and conquer through the Grace of God, the blood of Jesus, the mediation of Jesus, and the indwelling ministry of the Holy Spirit. God has given us EVERYTHING we need to live in victory. If we live in defeat, it is by our own choosing.
 
Budman said:
That's not what I asked.

I asked; can one sin so much as to lose their salvation?

Yes or no?
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Your question is like asking "can I repeatedly cheat on my wife without losing her". A person who loves his wife would not even need to ask that question. Love for God makes your question unnecessary. If we love God, we will not sin in that manner.
 
Macabeus said:
Your question is like asking "can I repeatedly cheat on my wife without losing her". A person who loves his wife would not even need to ask that question. Love for God makes your question unnecessary. If we love God, we will not sin in that manner.
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Stop avoiding the issue.

Can one sin so much that they will lose their salvation?

Yes or no?
 
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Isaiah55-10-11.png
 
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Budman said:
Stop avoiding the issue.

Can one sin so much that they will lose their salvation?

Yes or no?
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The Bible says to avoid foolish questions. Your question is foolish, like asking "how many times can I get caught cheating on my wife before she leaves me." A question like that is unnecessary when you love someone, whether man or God.
 
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Macabeus said:
The Bible says to avoid foolish questions. Your question is foolish, like asking "how many times can I get caught cheating on my wife before she leaves me." A question like that is unnecessary when you love someone, whether man or God.
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It's not foolish at all. It's a logical question. If there is a standard we must live up to in order to retain salvation, what is the tipping point?

The problem is you got backed into a corner and are looking for a way out.

You seem to like the "cheating wife" scenario, but even a single lie attributed to us will damn us.
 
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Macabeus said:
The Bible says to avoid foolish questions. Your question is foolish, like asking "how many times can I get caught cheating on my wife before she leaves me." A question like that is unnecessary when you love someone, whether man or God.
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Is your view then ....that the justified status can be lost?

I am sure on your view on this?
 
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Budman said:
It's not foolish at all. It's a logical question. If there is a standard we must live up to in order to retain salvation, what is the tipping point?

The problem is you got backed into a corner and are looking for a way out.

You seem to like the "cheating wife" scenario, but even a single lie attributed to us will damn us.
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TO make it very simple for you. Your question is based on a faulty premise. We are not saved or lost by how many sins we commit or how many sins we don't commit, or how many good works we do, or how many good works we don't do. We are saved by Grace through faith alone. Yet the fruit we bear shows whether our faith is genuine or not and whether our conversion is genuine or not.

If a person sins and repents, they are born of God by faith, for repentance and faith are gifts of God.

If a person commits sin repeatedly and unrepentively, they are workers of iniquity, and to the workers of iniquity Christ says "I never knew you", for iniquity and lawlessness are not gifts of God, but are works of satan.
 
Melach said:
james is a book with controversy. luther wasnt a fan.

my notes: the book doesnt mention the Holy Spirit even once. there is not much about grace. i dont know when it was written but its adressed to the tribes of israel, it does mention Jesus but i believe its written early on in church history , maybe before st. paul was even called?

do we have any evidence to the timing of when james was written? some bibles have the dates when the books were written in the prefare.
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Am not a fan either.
 
UnderGrace said:
Is your view then ....that the justified status can be lost?

I am sure on your view on this?
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I never said that. My position is this...

We are not saved or lost by how many sins we commit or how many sins we don't commit, or how many good works we do, or how many good works we don't do. We are saved by Grace through faith alone. Yet the fruit we bear shows whether our faith is genuine or not and whether our conversion is genuine or not.

He who commits sin (present, active, continuous, progressive tense) has neither seen Him nor known Him.

No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 1 John 3:6

How do you interpret this verse, UnderGrace?
 
Macabeus said:
TO make it very simple for you. Your question is based on a faulty premise. We are not saved or lost by how many sins we commit or how many sins we don't commit, or how many good works we do, or how many good works we don't do. We are saved by Grace through faith alone. Yet the fruit we bear shows whether our faith is genuine or not and whether our conversion is genuine or not.
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And yet a simple "yes" or "no" escapes you.

Macabeus said:
If a person commits sin repeatedly
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Like one who sins daily? Do you?

Macabeus said:
and unrepentively
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Are you talking about asking for forgiveness? If so, why would you ask forgiveness for sins already forgiven? Has not all sin been forgiven?

As far as someone proving their faith is "genuine" - what good works can a Christian do that an atheist cannot?
 
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Macabeus said:
He who commits sin (present, active, continuous, progressive tense) has neither seen Him nor known Him.
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Would you call sinning every day "progressive", "active", and "continuous"?

Have you gone a single day without sinning in thought, word, or deed?
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
I think that’s the point

God does not have to see works. He knows the heart. If he sees a person have true faith he will save them. The works just prove god was correct in his action of saving someone. Not because god need proof. But the person needs proof
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First of all EG, what are you calling good works? Second, what person needs proof? The one that works? Or those who sees the works?

And I don't understand this..."the works just prove God was correct in his action of saving someone" ?
 
UnderGrace said:
What is salvation then, a promise to be good?
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.
See Romans 8:28=30, Ephesians 2:1-10, 1 John 3:1-6, Titus 2:14, etc.

If one's view of salvation does not include repentance, it is a ticket punch salvation. Many exclude repentance from what God accomplishes in salvation. And yes, I believe that repentance from sin is something that is worked in us by God
 
Macabeus said:
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See Romans 8:28=30, Ephesians 2:1-10, 1 John 3:1-6, Titus 2:14, etc.

If one's view of salvation does not include repentance, it is a ticket punch salvation. Many exclude repentance from what God accomplishes in salvation. And yes, I believe that repentance from sin is something that is worked in us by God
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What if a Christian dies with unrepentant sin? Are they lost?
 
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